Sparring with gear and without

[senseikellam]

This is completely untrue. Headgear very much protects the brain from trauma. That is a fact and should not be marginalized. Adults may elect to spar without headgear, but should know that wearing it significantly reduces the risk of brain injury. Do you think football players wear helmets because they are worried about cuts? Do you think motorcycle helmet laws exist only to prevent cuts? Headgear is a wonderful, effective sparring tool. Children should not be allowed to spar without it.

VERY TRUE!

Perhaps those that think that headgear does little good are using cheap or inadequate headgear. I am not saying that to be mean or tacky, but, let's face it there are a lot of different types and styles of headgear and one must select the right type for the individual situation (IE: MMA, Boxing, Karate, Sparring). There are differences. Some people just purchase headgear without talking to their instructor and don't have a glue that that Karate headgear might not be suitable for hard core MMA.

If your life depends on a certain medication, you wouldn't go borrow the next best thing from Joe Blow down the street. So, headgear should be treated as such!

[UselessDave]

This is completely untrue. Headgear very much protects the brain from trauma. That is a fact and should not be marginalized. Adults may elect to spar without headgear, but should know that wearing it significantly reduces the risk of brain injury. Do you think football players wear helmets because they are worried about cuts? Do you think motorcycle helmet laws exist only to prevent cuts? Headgear is a wonderful, effective sparring tool. Children should not be allowed to spar without it.

VERY TRUE!

Perhaps those that think that headgear does little good are using cheap or inadequate headgear. I am not saying that to be mean or tacky, but, let's face it there are a lot of different types and styles of headgear and one must select the right type for the individual situation (IE: MMA, Boxing, Karate, Sparring). There are differences. Some people just purchase headgear without talking to their instructor and don't have a glue that that Karate headgear might not be suitable for hard core MMA.

If your life depends on a certain medication, you wouldn't go borrow the next best thing from Joe Blow down the street. So, headgear should be treated as such!

Everybody's just risking their health... You shouldn't smoke eather, cause it might cost more than you thought. And it might not!

[ShoriKid]

On the lighter side, I know if a guy is wearing good head gear, my hands are generally safer. I mean, good gear keeps bone on bone contact down. In our dojo, when the contact level gets picked up the head gear comes out. Good, tight boxing style head gear. Chin, cheeks and sides of the head are well protected. Also keeps you from landing shots on the forehead which saves hands from breakage.

[moriniuk]

The jury's still out on whether or not wearing headguards for full contact boxing reduces the chances of brain damage.

If anyone can produce any medical evidence to suggest otherwise then i'd be interested to see it.

As far as I'm aware, very little scientific testing has been carried out. I do know someone that was involved in some testing that involved blood tests which highlighted the effects of any mild concussion. The results were marginally worse for those wearing headguards.

Some of the reasons why are:

You get hit more because of lack of vision.

You get hit more because it's a bigger target.

The bigger target can create a bigger torque effect.

The extra weight of the head guard creates a larger moving mass which creates more brain shake.

Maybe people tend to hit harder because their sparring partner has a headguard on.

Yes they will prevent cuts, but how often do they occur during sparring?

Yes they will keep your mouth closed to reduce any jaw injuries.

The opinion is that using heavier weight gloves for sparring is a better solution.

In my opinion, a lot of organisations use them so as to be seen to be doing everything in their power to make things appear to be as safe as possible.

One thing that I think they're good for is in the case of a knock out or a fall, they can reduce any injuries from coming into contact with a hard floor.

Regarding football and motorcycle helmets. These have a hard shell and hard padding and I think they work in a different way. They are to prevent injuries to the skull if it comes into contact with a hard surface like a road or another player's helmet.

[DWx]

Some of the reasons why are:

You get hit more because of lack of vision.

You get hit more because it's a bigger target.

The bigger target can create a bigger torque effect.

The extra weight of the head guard creates a larger moving mass which creates more brain shake.

Maybe people tend to hit harder because their sparring partner has a headguard on.

These are exactly the reasons why I opt to go without TKD headgear. It is compulsory for our juniors but adults can choose and the majority choose not to because of these reasons. Your peripheral vision is compromised, your head feels heavy and you can't rotate it as fast and people try to and can hit you in the head more often. It also muffles your hearing which is just as bad never mind the fact that in competition you can't hear your coach or the ref.

Yes they will prevent cuts, but how often do they occur during sparring?

Yes they will keep your mouth closed to reduce any jaw injuries.

Well said. Besides, people should learn to keep their jaw closed anyway. Get hit outside of training and it should be a natural reflex to put your teeth together and hold your jaw. And it holds your mouthguard in place too.

Here's a study comparing amateur boxers (with headguards) to pro boxers (without): http://news.softpedia.com/news/Boxing-Damages-Brain-Despite-Headgear-Protection-35433.shtml

It found some of the problems associated with head trauma were just as likely in the amateur fighters as it was in the pros.

Also an article in BlackBelt magazine discussing head injuries ans why they occur: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=b9IDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA60&ots=KN5F-Na7cq&dq=study%20headguard%20safety&pg=PA58#v=onepage&q&f=false

[moriniuk]

Thanks for those links. It actually looks like I was talking sense.

[rmurray]

The jury is not out. Ask any board certified physician whether or not they recommend you use headgear while sparring. Headgear is even more effective in other martial arts than it is in boxing because you expect a blow to the head from a variety of hard surfaces (elbow, forearm, foot, shin, etc.). The world wide web can support literally any position on anything so let's spare eachother the links.

First; The distributors of headgear routinely play down the effectiveness of their products on labels and advertisements to reduce their liability and not imply any warranty against concussion. This prevents lawsuits.

Second; There is an agenda behind removing headgear from amateur boxing. The motivation is to increase the popularity of boxing which has been on a severe decline for 15 years. Removing headgear increases KO's and creates excitement and might make boxing more popular again. Boxing promoters can't come out and say they want to sacrifice the athletes health to renew interest in their sport so they take a back door approach and attack the effectiveness of this valuable safety equipment. Fortunately USA Boxing (Governing body of ameteur boxing in the US) and the International Olympic Committee rely more on science and their accredited doctors and don't buy the hype. But regular people like you read it, they beleive it's true then they post it here, and other people read it and they beleive it's true. People begin incurring unnecessary injuries because they aren't using adquate gear because they don't beleive in it.

[moriniuk]

Yes, the web is a great source of information and it would be good if you (rmurray) could provide a link to information which scientifically proves that headguards prevent brain injury.

Here's some information from the aba (uk) website.

Head guards are discussed later but probably do not greatly affect the incidence of acute or chronic brain injury.

HEAD GUARDS

1. There is currently much debate about the advisability of wearing head-guards. They are mandatory for all contests and the head-guard must be AIBA approved and bear the AIBA stamp.

2. It is very important that a boxer is given ample opportunity in training to experience

the effects on vision, balance and comfort from wearing a head-guard.

3. The value of head-guards is still under scientific evaluation. Head-guards, in good condition, should reduce soft tissue bruising and cuts around the eyes and face.

4. The overall value of a head-guard in reducing brain injuries is unclear. The energy absorbing material used in the head-guard will reduce the force of the blows, whether from a punch or from striking the back of the head on the ring floor.

5. The argument against head-guards is that they allow more sub-concussive blows and may also increase acceleration in rotation because of the larger mass.

I doubt very much whether 99.9% of board certified physicians know the first thing about the benefits of headguards in boxing.

(Quote, rmurray)

"But regular people like you read it, they believe it's true then they post it here".

Could the same not be said of you?

I can only reiterate that I know of somebody personally who was involved in these tests and the results were as mentioned above and in the previous links provided.

So I would stand by my statement that the jury is still out.

[DWx]

The jury is not out. Ask any board certified physician whether or not they recommend you use headgear while sparring. Headgear is even more effective in other martial arts than it is in boxing because you expect a blow to the head from a variety of hard surfaces (elbow, forearm, foot, shin, etc.). The world wide web can support literally any position on anything so let's spare eachother the links.

First; The distributors of headgear routinely play down the effectiveness of their products on labels and advertisements to reduce their liability and not imply any warranty against concussion. This prevents lawsuits.

Likewise a physician will tell you to wear one to cover their back and reduce their liability. Physician's don't know everything you know. Not all of them have a understanding of MA and they can only assume the risks involved.

Second; There is an agenda behind removing headgear from amateur boxing. The motivation is to increase the popularity of boxing which has been on a severe decline for 15 years. Removing headgear increases KO's and creates excitement and might make boxing more popular again. Boxing promoters can't come out and say they want to sacrifice the athletes health to renew interest in their sport so they take a back door approach and attack the effectiveness of this valuable safety equipment. Fortunately USA Boxing (Governing body of ameteur boxing in the US) and the International Olympic Committee rely more on science and their accredited doctors and don't buy the hype. But regular people like you read it, they beleive it's true then they post it here, and other people read it and they beleive it's true. People begin incurring unnecessary injuries because they aren't using adquate gear because they don't beleive in it.

Its not all hype. You say the jury is still out and that's because science and accredited doctors are coming up with reasons why not to wear headguards too. I would like to read and studies you have in favor of wearing headguards if you have links to them, might change my perspective on things.

Also who's to say regular people like you aren't reading the hype about needing to wear a headguard, believing it and the posting it on here. Works both ways. As long as there are studies on both side of the argument you can't say for sure. moriniuk and I were posting our take on the matter.

I know of a doctor firsthand who actually knew something about the sport and was ok with people not wearing headguards: my grandad was a surgeon and was heavily involved in the Guyanese boxing association, often acting as a ringside doctor. Unfortunately he's not around anymore so I can't ask him why he was of that opinion. But there's one accredited doctor on this side of the argument.

To add to the debate, something else I've just been reading: if wearing a headguard does lessen each blow you receive, then you can take more individual hits which can have a cumulative effect. With the headgear you can repeatedly take many concussive and subconcussive blows whereas without one, a hit is more likely to just knock you out or have a serious enough effect to stop the match. I'd rather take the one hard hit then lots of slightly lessened ones. Its the frequency of hits that result in chronic traumatic brain injury (CTBI) and if the headguard is taking the edge off of each of your opponents punches just enough not to knock you out, you're going to be receiving lots of hard punches. And yes there are medical studies to back this.

[moriniuk]

Can you provide any links to back up those claims?