Close the distance

[ps1]

On another thread, someone mentioned that training the skill of "closing the distance" is a waste of time. The person sited the idea that, if a person is not within striking range and you "close the distance" to strike them, it is you and not them that is starting the fight. It is an interesting point.

How do you feel about closing the distance?

[JusticeZero]

That was me.

If they aren't in range, they're pretty much harmless.

To close the distance, they have to move before they can attack. This requires them to accelerate. That in turn is limited by their stance; they have to apply acceleration force forward no faster than they can fall; there's a nifty engineering formula for this that I don't remember, but the long and short of it is that if they're in an upright stance, they're only going to be able to pull a fraction of a G of acceleration, and in a deep stance they'll have to worry about what they're doing with their legs.. of course, a deep stance is also a clear sign that something is up. They will have to shift and fall and all sorts of other things involved in ambulating, and these are all very telegraphic. So there's a limit to how much distance is going to be closed, and it should be apparent what way it can or will be closed. Nobody is going to just teleport into combat range. Physics don't work that way.

When you are moving, there is now this window where you intend to attack. Just because you moved does not mean you get to freely attack, this isn't some Final Fantasy attack animation. The guy you are rushing can attack you while you are moving. This puts you in a bad position, because you are giving them a huge amount of momentum to work with; all they have to do is have a fairly solid base when they attack and you are going to be taking serious damage because of how hard you are throwing yourself at them.

Now comes the matter of the guy who won't come in who you are training to chase down.

It's like a little poodle on a chain, they pull on it and growl and bark, but with you standing away from them, they're not going to do anything. And they know it. "If it wasn't for this chain, why.. i'd be up in your face like froom!" It's a bit like people sitting in an armchair gulping down brews bragging about how if it wasn't for something or other contrived reason, they would totally be pumping iron and on a diet training for the next Xtreme Testosterone Games. It's all the bravado of being in a fight without having to actually, you know, trade blows.

What do you call someone who is not in range to attack, and who isn't moving forward to get into range? You call them "someone who isn't attacking". And what does the law say about rushing in and taking a swing at someone who is not attacking? Something about assault, I believe, and if the other person retaliates, they can most likely claim self defense.

So rushing in from out of range isn't a particularly great tactical movement in the first place, and you're doing it on someone who isn't any threat toward you to begin with. Why train that?

[MasterPain]

So, someone has started a fight with you, you shove them off of you and they are now at a distance, possibly reaching for a weapon. You're saying there is no reason to close in? If you can escape then by all means do so. But to say there is never a reason to move in is far too simplistic a view.

Beyond that, someone who is being combative will be moving in on you. Therefore to train for such a situation, your training partners need to develop the ability to move in intelligently.

[JusticeZero]

Not saying that there is no reason to move in. Saying that there is no reason to train specifically to pounce on someone who is not in combat with you. If you are in a sparring match and someone is staying out of range, they are NOT SPARRING. They are not fighting either. If you move toward them and they move away such that you would need a 'closing the distance' move to get in range, they are not fighting, and they are at a range where they are not terribly dangerous. If you then 'close the distance' and hit them, you are the attacker.

[MasterPain]

OK, you're talking about runners. I thought you were talking about entries in general.

Yep, no need to fight a runner. But in a sparring situation, you should herd them into a corner and make them fight. It'll help them develop better than letting them run.

[tallgeese]

I think training entries is exceptionally important, largely for the reasons MP states above. I'm never going to assume that just beacuse a guy can't hit me that he isn't planning to do me harm. There are plenty of situations where I might elect to pre-emptively attack him based on his actions or verbage. It's very situational. NOt to mention, my job sometimes requiares me to initiate action.

Now, if any of the above situations occur, you'd best have practiced a way to get in without him defeating you effort to close. It's easy to say you'll just move in if you have to, but if you've never drilled it then you're moving in with no pre combat preperation. That's bad news. Even minimal exposure time is better than none.

[Dobbersky]

I think Closing the Gap is a valid Technique. In a majority of Martial Arts use this technique (called Irimi in Japanese) as part of their training.

If you take defence again the drawing of a sword, if you stay away the swordman has the time and chance to draw his weapon. Same as with other weapons.

In most self defence situations, the LAST thing on the mind of the ATTACKER, is the VICTIM, lunging forward for the counter-attack. Now looking at Capoeira, its a really good art but not seen it used properly in a Self-defence situation.

In Knockdown Karate and Muay Thai we always forge forward, as striking whilst Backing up can be quite awkward when you don't know where you're going.

Remember martial Arts are for protecting oneself, and moving forward is in every Kata, Form in 99.9% of them.

[bushido_man96]

I understand what JusticeZero is saying about the self-defense aspects here, and they do make sense. I also agree with TG and MP that at times, it may be necessary to know how to do it.

I don't like "closing the gap" in sparring, mainly because I'm not exceptionally quick. It also becomes a big telegraph for me. I like to instead use some footwork, just gradually moving closer to them, and see what they throw along the way. If I get close enough before they throw anything, then I'll start my attacks.

I think we see the "close the gap" concept more in competition settings, and that's how I view the concept for the most part.

[Jay]

We do alot of bridging the gap. I know for a fact that the way the JKD core structure is set up is for optimal bridging of the gap.

I also know that you don't always want to bridge the gap in a confrontation especially when short range weapons can be involved. Most fights will end in punching range where most leverage is available, unless you are pinpoint with your kicks which I am not. So to end a fight you will usually have to advance in some way, plus it is to your advantage that they are going backwards.

I understand that if your not in 'their' range then you are not fighting. But range can be very hard to judge the amount of times I thought someone couldn't hit me and I have been hit. It depends on body type, im usually well into someones striking range before I can hit them, so it is usually important for me to advance. With the exception of good head kickers fights are most often won or lost at closeish range.

[Fish]

It depends on context.

In a real life situation, by all means stay out of range and out of the way.

But in a sparring situation, there is an issue when the two protagonists are different sizes and have different reach. In that situation, it makes sense for the shorter fighter to move in and close the taller one down. Not only can this remove the advantage of longer reach, but if done effectively, it can force the taller fighter to move back to reestablish the range they are comfortable with. Thus, the shorter fighter is moving forward and the taller one moving backward, which makes the shorter fighter look more attacking.