Old Man Kobudo (kobujutsu)

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

I notice a lot of Kobudo kata have unique 'jump backs'. Such as Sakugawa no Sho ("no kun" if you like it that way as well). And even in a variation of Annanko no Sai, some kata even have NUMEROUS drops to one knee such as Kanegawa no Tinbei. In Rochin no Tinbei you see a roll (I don't dare say Ukemi for this waza, more like tai sabaki I think). Numerous Kama kata has the practitioners dropping to one knee, and taking jump backs landing in tsuru ashi dachi, as well as in neko ashi dachi. Okutagawa No Kama has numerous shiko dachi (although it's not as bad as kiba dachi in terms of strain on the knees it can be difficult for older and heavier martial artists).

What is your take on this? Is it ok to edit these movements OUT of the form? Or does that take away from the whole form in General? How do you go about these changes as age?

[Montana]

Edit out the movements?

NO!

Modify the movments to accomidate being overweight or "old" (I'm 58 and still do kata just fine)...maybe.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

So it's sufficient instead of doing a so called 'jump back' to modify it to a 'slide back'?

[bushido_man96]

Some will say not to modify, and others will say its not a big deal. What is important is if you body can't do something, then don't try it.

I would say to not make slight adjustments due to what your body can handle is asking for problems, especially as one gets older. On the other side is making sure to try to do it the way its taught, and if you have to make adjustments for individual practice and applications, then do so.

[Harlan]

With advancing arthritis in the knees, I find that the jumps simply aren't possible anymore. It does bother me, to teach say, Choun no kon, and not be able to perform the jump, but I make sure the student knows it's there and performs it as I was taught.

On another level, analyzing kata, it depends.

[tallgeese]

I'm in the "change it if you have to" camp. But then, I've never been much of a traditionalist . Or kata guy for that matter.

But, whatever training method you're using you have to listen to your body and what it's telling you, espicially as it gets more mileage on it. Refusing to change something that is bothering you can lead to injury, that means less training time. Unacceptable to me.

I used to LOVE to spar. And spar hard. As often as I could find partners. Barring that, I'd want to armor up and do hard contact defend and attack drills. Great stuff, but my body won't put up with it on the grinding schedule I used to do. So I save it for special occassions now.

Day to day, my bad wrist won't hold up to heavy bag rounds like it used to. So when I work it, I use lighter contact and work my combos.

I want to train for a good long bit yet. That won't occur if I don't realize there are considerations for making sure I stay healthy. This is actually easier to do now that I've fallen in love with BJJ. Now I can train much more frequently and spend less time hurting, recover quicker, and not get hurt as often. So I still build effective skill, stay on the mat and don't keep the cycle of injury, rehab, injury again going. It's a cycle that I'll eventually start to lose.

Sometimes, spending more time (a bulk of these days for me) in anther art will even be the answer. It's not a bad thing.

So, long answer taken out a couple of steps but the premise remains the same. Change it if you have to. Stay healthy and keep training.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

I have calcium deposits in both elbows as well as arthritis in my left knee, which is the landing leg for most of the jump backs in my style. I however still do them, they hurt yes,...but I take triflex to reduce the extra damage on my joints.

I personally don't see myself enjoying the arts if I cannot do them fully. This is solely my opinion, I would never impose this on anyone else.

But, I am aware that as you age, even if you wanted to, it may be impossible to do something. So I want to ask now...

if you have to modify the technique do you also alter the bunkai?

[MasterPain]

I have calcium deposits in both elbows as well as arthritis in my left knee, which is the landing leg for most of the jump backs in my style. I however still do them, they hurt yes,...but I take triflex to reduce the extra damage on my joints.

I personally don't see myself enjoying the arts if I cannot do them fully. This is solely my opinion, I would never impose this on anyone else.

But, I am aware that as you age, even if you wanted to, it may be impossible to do something. So I want to ask now...

if you have to modify the technique do you also alter the bunkai?

Bunkai is self defense application. It would be terribly illogical not to change it. It seems the reason for practicing self defense is to be able to defend yourself. If the practice hurts and you can barely do it, it will end poorly when someone is really trying to hurt you. Better to modify it to something applicable in real life.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

I have calcium deposits in both elbows as well as arthritis in my left knee, which is the landing leg for most of the jump backs in my style. I however still do them, they hurt yes,...but I take triflex to reduce the extra damage on my joints.

I personally don't see myself enjoying the arts if I cannot do them fully. This is solely my opinion, I would never impose this on anyone else.

But, I am aware that as you age, even if you wanted to, it may be impossible to do something. So I want to ask now...

if you have to modify the technique do you also alter the bunkai?

Bunkai is self defense application. It would be terribly illogical not to change it. It seems the reason for practicing self defense is to be able to defend yourself. If the practice hurts and you can barely do it, it will end poorly when someone is really trying to hurt you. Better to modify it to something applicable in real life.

I understand what your saying and it is my fault for not going into more detail of what I was referring to.

I was referring to 'jump backs' how ever self defense related these may be, I am sure not all jump backs are meant to be used as a self defense means. There may be a small boulder behind you, and stepping back or sliding back just won't cut it. So you have to 'jump back' over it. But if your older, over weight, or just a bit more crippled than when you were a few years ago, do you alter the bunkai of the waza down to the smallest technical ability so changing a jump back to a slide back? Or does one just remove that imaginary rock behind them all together?

[still kicking]

I say, remove the rock, it sounds a lot easier. Seriously, though, I don't personally have the authority to change anything, only my teacher's teacher, head of the organization, can officially change a kata. As Harlan says, I think it's better to leave the kata as it is and be sure it is taught that way, but that's because I like being part of a traditional style that is "uniform" (not gonna say "pure"). Sure, substitute another move for performance rather than hurt yourself, just so the original kata is still taught. Most of the time there are various interpretations of the moves, and most of the time it would be possible to substitute another meaning if you are, say, sliding back rather than jumping back. But if the only possible meaning is that there is a boulder behind you, and there are two cliff faces on either side that prevent moving to the side, pick another kata to work on!