Trial class nightmare!!!

[Daisho]

So, after giving it some thought on whether or not it was even worthy of discussion, I decided to share with you my experience of my "one free class" of Sambo that I took last night. I figure this is probably an experience many of us have shared, and could appreciate with a good laugh.

Let me start this out by saying I am VERY interested in Sambo, and have had a chance to visit the NYSC, and was thoroughly impressed by the skill and instruction. I decided to look a little more local and for a price cheaper than $199 per month.

I found a place locally (which I will not name as this is an opinion post, and I don't want anyone feeling slandered), and they invited me for a free class. My disappointment started the moment I entered the dojo.

1. I wore my usual gym clothes, but packed my gi. I don't own a white belt anymore so I figured I'd ask to borrow one, or I'd just take the class in my rash guard and sweat pants. No one had an extra white belt except for the ones they sell with their gi's, but the instructor insisted I wear my gi and BB. This lead to a pretty long convo about my martial arts background, which I explained as 8 years of Judo/JJJ, a few years of Aikido and weapons training. The sensei was probably a few years younger than me, so i'd guess in his late 20's, and appeared to be in pretty good shape, although his green gi was a bit distracting for me to really size him up.

He immediately called into question my Judo training, informing me how he once studied Judo for a few months, but abandoned it because it wasn't a serious martial style, and didn't have any good applications once the fight got to the ground. I was surprised that he was speaking about my training so disrespectfully, but I kept quiet and hoped it was a case of his skill and techniques being far superior to the Judo he'd learned, in which case I'd be pretty pleased in the long run.

After this we go through a really light warm-up, that has like 80% of the class completely gassed. People bent over at the waist and sucking wind, and walking in front of the stand up fans to cool down. I'm not even kidding it was under a mile in total. No crabs across the floor, no rolling, no katana above the head quarter-mile jumping etc. Just a leisurely jog around the dojo, that lasted maybe 10 minutes.

He doesn't make any comment for people to up their cardio workouts or anything, and begins some punching and kicking warm-ups.

2. he proceeds to show us a kansetsu-ish trapping combo into a throw… sort of a tsuri komi goshi. None of the students had obviously done a similar throw before, and the technique required a lot of individual training. He paired us off (putting me with a yellow belt) to practice the throw. After the first attempt I relaized the person I was partnered with didn't understand the grip itself for the throw, nor how to lock his arms so his hips would be generating the torque. I readjusted his grip and gave some instruction, to which I was interrupted and the sensei asked me to step forward. He wanted to show exactly why what I was teaching wouldn't work.

He asks me to grip his gi like I was showing the student, and then lightly kicks the inside of my thigh, attempts to trap my wrist, and cups my chin for a takedown. All that while he's standing straight up, generating no power. My muscle memory was screaming to tai otoshi and show him how silly he was being, but instead I stood there in amazement. He asks if I understand, to which I kind of blankly blink and nod yes. I wanted to walk out right then.

AFter another 10 or so minutes where the students were not getting the hang of the trap nor the throw, he tells us as uke to add resistance after the atemi to the trap and throw. Yet he leaves me with this yellow belt, while having 2 other dan instructors my size just standing around. The guy I'm partnered with has no base, and is trying to generate all his power with his arms. I actually felt shamed into falling over as if this was effective.

After the session i talked to the sensei and one of his instructors, and informed them that I appreciated the class and getting to meet them, but I didn't think that school was going to be a good fit for me. To which he immediately chimed in that he could tell that I had too many preconceived notions, and didn't seem willing to take on the responsibility of learning something new. It was probably the most hilarious MA moment I'd ever had. The only thing that bothered me was wearing my BB in his class and having him go through his little nonsense probably served to legitimize him even further.

Wednesday I have an invite to train in a BJJ/JJJ/Judo dojo, that I'm really looking forward to. Hopefully my experience there will ahve me posting that I've found my new school!

[xKITAx]

Oh wow ... That's not a good look at all.

[bigpopparob2000]

I'd be too tempted to return when they have a sparring class, so I could show him how impractical my training really is. I'm impressed with your ability to just let it roll off your back and go find another dojo. Good job!

[Wastelander]

So, after giving it some thought on whether or not it was even worthy of discussion, I decided to share with you my experience of my "one free class" of Sambo that I took last night. I figure this is probably an experience many of us have shared, and could appreciate with a good laugh.

Let me start this out by saying I am VERY interested in Sambo, and have had a chance to visit the NYSC, and was thoroughly impressed by the skill and instruction. I decided to look a little more local and for a price cheaper than $199 per month.

I found a place locally (which I will not name as this is an opinion post, and I don't want anyone feeling slandered), and they invited me for a free class. My disappointment started the moment I entered the dojo.

1. I wore my usual gym clothes, but packed my gi. I don't own a white belt anymore so I figured I'd ask to borrow one, or I'd just take the class in my rash guard and sweat pants. No one had an extra white belt except for the ones they sell with their gi's, but the instructor insisted I wear my gi and BB. This lead to a pretty long convo about my martial arts background, which I explained as 8 years of Judo/JJJ, a few years of Aikido and weapons training. The sensei was probably a few years younger than me, so i'd guess in his late 20's, and appeared to be in pretty good shape, although his green gi was a bit distracting for me to really size him up.

He immediately called into question my Judo training, informing me how he once studied Judo for a few months, but abandoned it because it wasn't a serious martial style, and didn't have any good applications once the fight got to the ground. I was surprised that he was speaking about my training so disrespectfully, but I kept quiet and hoped it was a case of his skill and techniques being far superior to the Judo he'd learned, in which case I'd be pretty pleased in the long run.

After this we go through a really light warm-up, that has like 80% of the class completely gassed. People bent over at the waist and sucking wind, and walking in front of the stand up fans to cool down. I'm not even kidding it was under a mile in total. No crabs across the floor, no rolling, no katana above the head quarter-mile jumping etc. Just a leisurely jog around the dojo, that lasted maybe 10 minutes.

He doesn't make any comment for people to up their cardio workouts or anything, and begins some punching and kicking warm-ups.

2. he proceeds to show us a kansetsu-ish trapping combo into a throw… sort of a tsuri komi goshi. None of the students had obviously done a similar throw before, and the technique required a lot of individual training. He paired us off (putting me with a yellow belt) to practice the throw. After the first attempt I relaized the person I was partnered with didn't understand the grip itself for the throw, nor how to lock his arms so his hips would be generating the torque. I readjusted his grip and gave some instruction, to which I was interrupted and the sensei asked me to step forward. He wanted to show exactly why what I was teaching wouldn't work.

He asks me to grip his gi like I was showing the student, and then lightly kicks the inside of my thigh, attempts to trap my wrist, and cups my chin for a takedown. All that while he's standing straight up, generating no power. My muscle memory was screaming to tai otoshi and show him how silly he was being, but instead I stood there in amazement. He asks if I understand, to which I kind of blankly blink and nod yes. I wanted to walk out right then.

AFter another 10 or so minutes where the students were not getting the hang of the trap nor the throw, he tells us as uke to add resistance after the atemi to the trap and throw. Yet he leaves me with this yellow belt, while having 2 other dan instructors my size just standing around. The guy I'm partnered with has no base, and is trying to generate all his power with his arms. I actually felt shamed into falling over as if this was effective.

After the session i talked to the sensei and one of his instructors, and informed them that I appreciated the class and getting to meet them, but I didn't think that school was going to be a good fit for me. To which he immediately chimed in that he could tell that I had too many preconceived notions, and didn't seem willing to take on the responsibility of learning something new. It was probably the most hilarious MA moment I'd ever had. The only thing that bothered me was wearing my BB in his class and having him go through his little nonsense probably served to legitimize him even further.

Wednesday I have an invite to train in a BJJ/JJJ/Judo dojo, that I'm really looking forward to. Hopefully my experience there will ahve me posting that I've found my new school!

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but I will say that he may have at least a little bit of a point--you were looking at the technique he was teaching from the perspective of a Judo blackbelt while he was teaching it for beginners. A technique that you don't feel will work because your opponent can just drop you with tai otoshi may very well have a way to defend that very thing once you get the basic idea. I can't say that for certain, of course, without having seen it, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. As for those people's conditioning, I personally feel that conditioning has very little bearing on the quality of training--I go to the dojo and pay to train technique and I can train my conditioning on my own for free. It is unfortunate that he was putting down your Judo training, though, and doesn't exactly make him look good. My Judo instructor here put down my karate training but he at least tried to keep a bit of an open mind and force himself to say that it wasn't wrong, just different .

Good luck with the BJJ/JJJ/Judo dojo!

[Daisho]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but I will say that he may have at least a little bit of a point--you were looking at the technique he was teaching from the perspective of a Judo blackbelt while he was teaching it for beginners. A technique that you don't feel will work because your opponent can just drop you with tai otoshi may very well have a way to defend that very thing once you get the basic idea. I can't say that for certain, of course, without having seen it, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. As for those people's conditioning, I personally feel that conditioning has very little bearing on the quality of training--I go to the dojo and pay to train technique and I can train my conditioning on my own for free. It is unfortunate that he was putting down your Judo training, though, and doesn't exactly make him look good. My Judo instructor here put down my karate training but he at least tried to keep a bit of an open mind and force himself to say that it wasn't wrong, just different .

Good luck with the BJJ/JJJ/Judo dojo!

I hear what you're saying, and there's no doubt I went into the class with my own preconceived notions! I wouldn't dispute that at all. The notion, though, certainly wasn't that this class would have nothing for me.

I could've dealt with all the rest if the instruction wasn't so incomplete and poor. The majority of students were mid ranked (at least that's what I'd assume blue, purple, and green to be), so I get that the training is going to be slow…. but have you ever seen a sensei teach an entire deflection + trap + grab + throw all in one class? Like you said I did have my own preconceived notions, and that probably made this all stand out, but my old dojo would teach the grip itself first, probably through 4 or 5 other smaller control techniques, and then couple it with a throw when the grip is natural and the control is strong. And the fact that these guys haven't mastered a strong base and they're working on throws is crazy. I'm too old to wind up with a blown out back

either way, next class is a lot more similar to my prior training, so i will see for sure if i'm bringing too much of my own mental baggage into the search for a new school. BTW, I have an appointment at the NYSC SAMBO school friday! yay. 199 is a lot of money to spend, but i'm hyper interested at this point.

edit: also as I've discussed before here, i think cardio and conditioning is pretty important in MA, unless of course you have a debilitating condition. Judo, JJ, and sambo all rely on a training partner to learn anything effectively. Someone with poor cardio might be fine in the instruction phase, but then you get paired up with that guy to do some JJ rolling and he's constantly gassed and can't give any real resistance after 2 minutes or so. Then you're constantly stopping so they can catch their breath.

training in a dojo is a group event, not an individual one. I don't think you need to be in marathon shape, but if you have a poor fitness level and your only exercise is the dojo itself, that makes it really hard on your training partner to ever really refine their technique

[ps1]

It's tough to find any truly qualified sambo instructors in the US (at least in my experience). It may just be worth your money to go where you know the instruction is good.

[Daisho]

Oh wow ... That's not a good look at all.

no, it certainly wasn't. my former dojo had had many outside instructors come in from Judo, JJJ, and BJJ schools and we were always more than willing to learn how we could improve our art.

I'd be too tempted to return when they have a sparring class, so I could show him how impractical my training really is. I'm impressed with your ability to just let it roll off your back and go find another dojo. Good job!

ha, thanks. in all honesty i didn't exactly feel slighted enough to prove myself. I've always competed very well in regional Judo tournys, and have won quite a few local Judo competitions. I've proved myself among my own peers, in a very highly respected martial art. To think that JUdo is useless on the ground shows me how ignorant he is of my training, as it wouldn't be a stretch to assume my JJ to be good enough to put him in a seriously bad position once i did get him on the ground.

It's tough to find any truly qualified sambo instructors in the US (at least in my experience). It may just be worth your money to go where you know the instruction is good.

i was really hoping this wasn't true. From some of the Sambo I've seen from the NYSC guys I'm very interested in how Sambo could increase my arsenal on top of my Judo/JJJ training. being $199 it would be very hard for me to continue both my gym membership and take on training. I don't know if I could design a military styled strength workout that would keep me in the kind of physical shape that I'm used to bringing onto the mat, nor do I know exactly how they would effect my ability to actually fight.

Like would it be a net gain to lose some strength and explosiveness, but gain more tools…. or would i be better served being as strong and fast as possible with my current martial art ability.

I guess if I choose to go into Sambo, I'm going to find an answer to this question either way.

[GeoGiant]

I wish I could say that I was shocked. I wanted to cross train in another style and there is a MA studio not far from my house so I thought I'd check it out. This MA studio offered a few different styles that I was interested in. I emailed the instructor and asked if i could come in and check out a class. The instructor offered me a free class. I went to the class and enjoyed it. I met with the instructor after the class and he proceeded to tell my current style (Tang Soo Do) was a waste of time, blah, blah, blah. I was shocked and offended. I thanked him for letting me take a class and I never went back.

[Daisho]

I wish I could say that I was shocked. I wanted to cross train in another style and there is a MA studio not far from my house so I thought I'd check it out. This MA studio offered a few different styles that I was interested in. I emailed the instructor and asked if i could come in and check out a class. The instructor offered me a free class. I went to the class and enjoyed it. I met with the instructor after the class and he proceeded to tell my current style (Tang Soo Do) was a waste of time, blah, blah, blah. I was shocked and offended. I thanked him for letting me take a class and I never went back.

man Geo, that's so ignorant on his part that it drives me nuts. a friend of mine faced a similar situation when we went to a BJJ studio and was informed all his years in TKD was worthless. This guy had ridiculous power and thighs like tree trunks. Anyway he came to train with us, which is how we met, and his Judo game became ridiculous really fast. Having that background in TKD, plus the ability to keep himself off the mat, he was an absolute beast. the guy would do all sorts of feinted kicks and windmill looking kicks that came in so damn fast it was more than a little intimidating getting in close enough without blindly rushing. then once you were inside his Judo game was all sorts of tight.

i can't think of any MA that can't be taught to be extremely effective. The fact that his TKD dojo made heavy use of spar and kumite, and they regularly competed made his ability to fight leaps and bounds better than anyone we'd ever seen join our dojo as a white belt.

[honoluludesktop]

Just like the BMW salesman who tries to sell you a car by criticizing your entry level Benz. Sure way to get on your good side.