Hook

[Liver Punch]

No, not the pirate...the punch. A few friends and myself had a discussion today about the method in which it should be thrown. It was agreed that a horizontal fist was bad news because the smallest two knuckles tend to take the brunt of the impact. From there it was a debate about throwing as if holding a beer mug in your hand vs throwing as if you were holding that mug upside down.

The basic argument in favor of the standard "beer mug" method was that it creates more power. I have to agree, I can create a noticeable amount more power when I throw in this fashion.

The opposing argument is that throwing with your "beer mug upside down" makes it far less likely to strike with your smallest two fingers on accident, and it creates a much greater likelihood of striking the points just behind the ear (I'm terrible with pressure points...triple-warmer something of another?)

Anyhow, I do remember Gil Martinez specifically switching me to the upside down hand method, but....what say the rest of you?

[Kuma]

I'm having trouble picturing what you're suggesting. By holding it upside down, do you mean striking with the hook with the thumb side down?

Edited April 25, 2011 by Kuma

[MasterPain]

I like the holding the cup, but I'm an in-fighter. Brian Baker teaches the upside down method as more of a long distance hook. It feels funny to me and I think the structural line up is weaker. the first method seems to rely on pec muscle, wheras the upside down method pulls on the top muscle of the shoulder. Place your fist against a threshold and press with your fist in either position to feel it. Anyway, it works well for Brian and others, I just don't like it.

The pressure point I believe is Lateral Inferior Aspect of the Occipital Bone 1. Doc would beat me up for that one.

[ShoriKid]

Is it a bad thing if you tend to switch over depending on range and target? In tight, and especially to the body, I throw a hook thumb up/vertical. It gives a little more 'dig' into the target for me and allows for the angle of the strike to shift. Once I'm head level it's thumb to the side/horizontal for the punch. I've never had an issue catching the ring/pinky knuckles on the punch or getting back behind the ear with the target unless I meant to.

A lot of it comes down to personal preference I suppose.

[Liver Punch]

I should have clarified from the beginning about the target. The difference in your hand is being debated on the head/face. In the body, thumb-up is almost certainly the best way to go about it. As far as range, I'm liking the idea of switching based on the target. The question become, I suppose, whether or not the risk of injury is too great to facilitate a technique that costs you power.

[tallgeese]

Good question.

For me, it matters as to the targets angle to my fists angle. So, if I'm tight, have a high guard and shovel, it will go beer mug up. If I'm outisde he lead arm, i'm more likely to go beer mug down (great descriptors by the way, I can actaully picture what you're saying )

That way I'm lining up weapon to target a bit more. Becauseof this natural line up, the beer mug down does tend to function better from a distance with most people at the same height.

Bottom line is, it will depend more on the weapon and target's angle, and my ability to match them up, than any other factor.

[Groinstrike]

I think the point behind the ear is Gallbladder #20, according to Dillman.

Don't quote me on that however.

[bushido_man96]

I had not thought much about throwing the punch beer mug down, but when it was mentioned that way for more range, I started thinking about it. I'll have to work that on the bag some, and see how it feels.

I've thrown it both horizontal and vertical, but only on the bags. Anymore, I don't worry about trying to generate any kind of wrist rotation, and worry more about power generation from the feet and hips, so I throw it beer mug up more often now.

Thanks for the idea on beer mug down. I guess I won't know until I try it.

[Kuma]

"Beer mug down" in most karate systems is usually uraken mawashi uchi.

Starting right at about 7:00 you can see it. We'll work it in with our fighting combinations from time to time, as well as on the bags, but I've never used it in kumite yet personally.

[sensei8]

Shindokan's hook punch, Uraken Mawashi Uchi, is used by us quite a lot. Especially when engaging in close/in fighting because we live in that very up close and personal area. We don't go backwards, instead, we go to inside/outside of our opponent as we're going forward.

I've never heard of the "beer mug" expression before, but I like it and it's how we perform our hook punch, whether it's Jodan, chudan, or gedan. For us, it's a very natural punch, and in that, we use it quite a lot during kumite.