I feel bad

[Tigglet]

It's good that you're training with more senior grades, you should see your skill level improve and hopefully as you see them work to bring you on you'll get a sense of how to bring on other less skilled, focused or disciplined people in your club. Something to consider in your interaction with the 10 year old, you say that your sensei has you do kumite with a more senior grade who stands on your feet and hurts you and you're clear about the impact it has on your training. I wonder if the child you were kicking possibly feels the same way about having to train with you each week particularly given you've posted twice now about them having a hard time at your hands.

I'm not sure I would have continued with a drill 5 times knowing there was a good chance the child would move the pad away and certainly not if I'd already kicked him in the face once or twice. It's not your job to put him in his place, teach him a lesson or manage his behaviour, that's your sensei's job. We have some fairly strapping kids in our club, 12/13 year olds taller than me and in some cases pretty strong, but they're still kids and I wouldn't dream of sparring with them the way I would a peer.

The thing is as an orange belt, you're still a fairly junior grade yourself, even if you are, understandably, more skilled than the child. If you can't work with this him without hurting him perhaps you need to speak to your sensei about developing control or changing partners.

[Ashley]

Tonight when i was at karate i was paired up with a 10 year old boy who does not listen or do what he is told. My sensei put me with him because she wants me to put him in his place and make him work. anyways, he was holding the kicking pad and i was doing a roundhouse kick and then he decided that he was going to move the pad away from his body and i kicked him in the face like 5 times. my sensei said that he deserved it and hosnestly i think he does deserve it too but i feel bad about it.

should i be feeling bad about it?

I didn't understand: was it your intention to kick him or was it an accident? Well, 5 times can't be accidently )))

[JusticeZero]

As explained before, it was not intended to kick the kid, it was intended to kick the pad. Which the kid would repeatedly decide "You're not the boss of me! I march to my own drummer!" and move out of the way. At that point, the kick would not hit the pad, but instead hit the person not following instructions in the head.

Really, the first time that happened I would stop and go over the instruction to hold the pad properly. The second time I would give a reminder. The third time I would comment to the teacher. If I was still stuck with the guy, the fourth time I would go for a KO, and the fifth time, I would add more power.

If the student were to get upset at me for hitting him when he explicitly ignored safety instructions, it is not really my concern, since someone ignoring safety instructions endangers everyone at the school.

One of the people I once trained with recounted the following story: They were training at their large studio. They had a new student. (Several actually, but one in particular.)

The new student was randomly throwing techniques and not following directions. She asked the new student to follow instructions, as spinning kicks in an enclosed space can be a bit risky. Said student ignored her.

She went and got the senior who was running that segment of the class. Said senior was pregnant at the time. The senior came to talk to the new guy and see what was up, tell him to stick with the routine.

At this point, the new student, as part of his random technique throwing, stepped forward and threw a spinning kick which was very likely to connect with the senior's midsection on the last third of it's arc. So the student I spoke to stepped into the kick and took it instead. This earned her a trip to the hospital, and the spaz earned an ejection from the club. What was his problem? We don't know, and frankly, we don't care.

If someone can't follow safety instructions and insists on 'doing their own thing', it is only a matter of time before they 'do their own thing' in a way that will get someone hurt.. and if you're lucky, it will only be themself.

[still kicking]

JusticeZero wrote:

One of the people I once trained with recounted the following story: They were training at their large studio. They had a new student. (Several actually, but one in particular.) The new student was randomly throwing techniques and not following directions. She asked the new student to follow instructions, as spinning kicks in an enclosed space can be a bit risky. Said student ignored her.

She went and got the senior who was running that segment of the class. Said senior was pregnant at the time. The senior came to talk to the new guy and see what was up, tell him to stick with the routine.

At this point, the new student, as part of his random technique throwing, stepped forward and threw a spinning kick which was very likely to connect with the senior's midsection on the last third of it's arc. So the student I spoke to stepped into the kick and took it instead. This earned her a trip to the hospital, and the spaz earned an ejection from the club. What was his problem? We don't know, and frankly, we don't care.

Wow, that is quite a story Justice Zero, and a good illustration of your point. The thing that has been missing for me in this whole thread is... where is the instructor??! I mean I could understand how in a really large dojo this kind of thing (the event described by the OP) could be missed or overlooked, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. A lot of people have mentioned that the kid should be responsible for himself and/or Holley should be responsible for her behavior, and I think both are true. However, I cannot fathom how any teacher would just turn loose an emotionally disturbed kid and a barely adult orange belt and let them just try to work it out. That seems extremely irresponsible on the instructor's part, not to mention dangerous. That is, assuming Holley gave us all the information to begin with. In any case, I do hope that this situation has been resolved in this dojo!

[shotokanz]

JusticeZero wrote:

One of the people I once trained with recounted the following story: They were training at their large studio. They had a new student. (Several actually, but one in particular.) The new student was randomly throwing techniques and not following directions. She asked the new student to follow instructions, as spinning kicks in an enclosed space can be a bit risky. Said student ignored her.

She went and got the senior who was running that segment of the class. Said senior was pregnant at the time. The senior came to talk to the new guy and see what was up, tell him to stick with the routine.

At this point, the new student, as part of his random technique throwing, stepped forward and threw a spinning kick which was very likely to connect with the senior's midsection on the last third of it's arc. So the student I spoke to stepped into the kick and took it instead. This earned her a trip to the hospital, and the spaz earned an ejection from the club. What was his problem? We don't know, and frankly, we don't care.

Wow, that is quite a story Justice Zero, and a good illustration of your point. The thing that has been missing for me in this whole thread is... where is the instructor??! I mean I could understand how in a really large dojo this kind of thing (the event described by the OP) could be missed or overlooked, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. A lot of people have mentioned that the kid should be responsible for himself and/or Holley should be responsible for her behavior, and I think both are true. However, I cannot fathom how any teacher would just turn loose an emotionally disturbed kid and a barely adult orange belt and let them just try to work it out. That seems extremely irresponsible on the instructor's part, not to mention dangerous. That is, assuming Holley gave us all the information to begin with. In any case, I do hope that this situation has been resolved in this dojo!

that's because it more than likely isn't actually happening. Refer to holleys other thread and read my post near the end of it to figure out why. Holley just got an orange belt, and she was supposedly going to get her purple belt...that is until her mom told her sensei she lied about something, now the sensei won't let her test for purple. Funny how someone who can't control their kicks gets to jump from orange to PURPLE belt isn't it?

[Tigglet]

As explained before, it was not intended to kick the kid, it was intended to kick the pad. Which the kid would repeatedly decide "You're not the boss of me! I march to my own drummer!" and move out of the way. At that point, the kick would not hit the pad, but instead hit the person not following instructions in the head.

Really, the first time that happened I would stop and go over the instruction to hold the pad properly. The second time I would give a reminder. The third time I would comment to the teacher. If I was still stuck with the guy, the fourth time I would go for a KO, and the fifth time, I would add more power.

I agree with all you say when training with adults, they're responsible for themselves and able to make decisions about the level of risk they expose themselves to when deciding not to follow instructions.

This however, was a 10 year old child, I can't think of any circumstances in which I'd go for a KO with a child or add more power - adult to child sparring/drilling is I think a different ball game all together. I don't think a child has ever been asked to hold a bag for an adult because bag work for us is all about getting power into technique and even if this child did hold the bag correctly the power from the adult would knock them halfway across the room.

[Tigglet]

As explained before, it was not intended to kick the kid, it was intended to kick the pad. Which the kid would repeatedly decide "You're not the boss of me! I march to my own drummer!" and move out of the way. At that point, the kick would not hit the pad, but instead hit the person not following instructions in the head.

Really, the first time that happened I would stop and go over the instruction to hold the pad properly. The second time I would give a reminder. The third time I would comment to the teacher. If I was still stuck with the guy, the fourth time I would go for a KO, and the fifth time, I would add more power.

I agree with all you say when training with adults, they're responsible for themselves and able to make decisions about the level of risk they expose themselves to when deciding not to follow instructions.

This however, was a 10 year old child, I can't think of any circumstances in which I'd go for a KO with a child or add more power - adult to child sparring/drilling is I think a different ball game all together. I don't think a child has ever been asked to hold a bag for an adult in our dojo because bag work for us is all about getting power into technique and even if this child did hold the bag correctly the power from the adult would knock them halfway across the room.

[Tigglet]

As explained before, it was not intended to kick the kid, it was intended to kick the pad. Which the kid would repeatedly decide "You're not the boss of me! I march to my own drummer!" and move out of the way. At that point, the kick would not hit the pad, but instead hit the person not following instructions in the head.

Really, the first time that happened I would stop and go over the instruction to hold the pad properly. The second time I would give a reminder. The third time I would comment to the teacher. If I was still stuck with the guy, the fourth time I would go for a KO, and the fifth time, I would add more power.

I agree with all you say when training with adults, they're responsible for themselves and able to make decisions about the level of risk they expose themselves to when deciding not to follow instructions.

This however, was a 10 year old child, I can't think of any circumstances in which I'd go for a KO with a child or add more power - adult to child sparring/drilling is I think a different ball game all together. I don't think a child has ever been asked to hold a bag for an adult in our dojo because bag work for us is all about getting power into technique and even if this child did hold the bag correctly the power from the adult would knock them halfway across the room.

[JusticeZero]

I don't think a child has ever been asked to hold a bag for an adult because bag work for us is all about getting power into technique and even if this child did hold the bag correctly the power from the adult would knock them halfway across the room.

I've done it, mostly went for precision instead of power.

Does not remove the fact that someone who will not listen to and obey directions given for safety reasons is a danger to everyone in the club and should not be there. Get with the program or get out.

[Tigglet]

Sorry, I don't know what happened by my previous post but I didn't intend for it to appear 3 times.