curling your toes back

[evergrey]

We use the ball of the foot in Kyokushin, though it is hard to learn to get the toes back. Mine still don't bend back well, but I prefer to not use the top of my foot...

Elbows huuuuurt!

http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Kyokushin/0311/anklebruise.jpg

My ankle was so swollen...

Shins can be powerful, but the ball of the foot is great for penetration- getting in there and tagging the nerves on the sides of the legs. It's really effective! I prefer to use my shins, but I have to admit, getting hit by someone's shin doesn't phase me as much as a really hard ball of the foot does.

That, and a hard well-aimed hook kick or axe kick with the heel- there's more time to see it coming, but it can be tricksy!

[KumitePanda]

i don't pull my toes back at all on washi geri! my feet are naturally strong but i can't kick washi geri because of my hips so when i do do it i prefer to use the top of my foot.

[bushido_man96]

I wouldn't suggest hitting with the ball of your foot on the Mawashi Geri. You'll spare yourself a lot of training and pain if you aim with the top of your foot, toes pointed, or the shin.

Some styles require it. The ball of the foot is a nice impact area for the middle kick, as it penetrates the torso pretty effectively. Less useful in a real fight in my opinion, but any kick above the waist is (also my opinion). If you can do it right it can be very effective. Lyoto Machida sneaks in the occasional round kick with the ball of the foot.

Our style requires it in forms and one-steps. In sparring, its usually the instep, but that's with gear on, so the tools aren't affected as much by the contact.

I do board breaks with ball-of-the-foot round kicks all the time. I do 3 or 4 boards at a demo, and do 3 for my testings.

[honoluludesktop]

Its good to learn to kick in different ways. I am a little stiff, and it took a while to learn to kick with the ball of my foot, but it's a very powerfull strike even when the kick is a little slow. When you do it right, you never hurt your toes.

[Kuma]

I had a sensei who could crack you with a ball of the foot chudan mawashi that would take your breath away. He made me a believer, and occasionally I'll manage to sneak one in from time to time.

[pers]

It is all about training ,the stretching advice is good . you can also practice kicking slowley aganist a wall or something ,it will eventually come the time that your toes automatically bend backwards and you kick with the ball of the foot .

It has always been the ball of the foot for me , but it took me a while to use it like second nature and it was a bit frustrating at times ,but like everything else you have to pay the dues buy training hard in the dojo and do a bit extra at home mastering little bits and pieces that we all find hard in the beginning .

but who says learning martial arts and karate is easy ?

[ChristianeHigashi]

i had the problem of not curling my toes back.. still do sometimes but apparently we can all bend out toes back far enough to do a successful mai gerri. my problem was i was going more of a kin geri. i was bringing it straight from the floow.. you might be the same and you might not notice it like i do but try and bring your leg up first you your knee joint is level with your hip horizontaly then extend from the knee down.. this automatically gave my toes a bend {:

[Shizentai]

We use the ball of the foot in Kyokushin, though it is hard to learn to get the toes back. Mine still don't bend back well, but I prefer to not use the top of my foot...

Elbows huuuuurt!

I agree with everything you've said in this thread ev! Good advise on both counts!

In my organization we learn mawashigeri with both instep and ball of the foot, but for different applications. We do this because each has its advantages and disadvantages, so it's best to keep both in your arsenal.

A shin/instep kick is much harder for an opponet to avoid, since there is a much longer range of applicable striking surface coming at you. However, with increased area of striking surface goes decreased force (lbs/in^2). Additionally, the instep is nowhere near as naturally hardened as the bottom of the foot (which everyone conditions by walking around on it every day).

By contrast, a ball-of-the-foot strike can deliver a stronger penetrating force since it has a smaller surface area. It is also less likely to damage the attacker's foot in doing so (especially for people who don't do too much conditioning training). However, practicing toe flexibility and most importantly, accuracy in target is essential (as it is much easier to miss with this sort of kick).

Though it is not my personal opinion, I've heard many instructors for this reason recommend kicking with the instep for strikes to the head (since less force and more range is required for incapacitation), and kicking with the ball of the foot to lower targets like stomach level (since more penetrating force is required for incapacitation).

now, back to the OP's question:

1. Ev's pseudo-seiza is a very good idea

2. So is the idea of doing lunges on your toes that someone else mentioned.

3. Then, after you've stretched them out for a good long while (as in months or maybe years, it depends on you), I would also recommend finding a thick stone or brick wall and practicing kicking that gently at first, then progressively harder with time. This will allow you to first feel if the weight is being successfully applied mostly to the ball of the foot, before putting force behind it. If you feel as though your force is on the ball and not the toes, then you are bending them back enough for basic safety, even if it doesn't look perfect when you kick in the air.

4. Just like everyone else said, Practice practice practice! Repeat items 1-3 to increase flexibility.

Now, all of that being said, I knew a high-ranking sensei who was born with a defect in his feet that prevented him from moving his toes at all. All bodies are different. If you are like him and over time still can't seem to bend them back enough to be safe when you kick with the ball, rest assured that there are many ways and techniques to compensate for that and still be perfectly awesome at karate.

[straightblast]

I guess it really depends on what kind of shoe I am wearing at the time but for me when i pratice barefoot, I kick with the ball, I can bend my toes way back and I have tried top of foot and it is very painful especially when caught with an elbow.

I never really got why we do it barefoot when in real life you will have shoes on, unless your training to compete, in which I dont.

I wear my work shoes 95% of the time and they are steel toe so in that case, I will be kicking with my toe.

Regards

[Sokusen]

I am a huge fan of kicking with my toe, almost to a fault. I have a hard time pulling my toes back to kick with the ball of my foot so as not to hurt people in my class. My toes just automaticly form the sokusen when I kick.

Here is a youtube link of some of my toe conditioning. This way you can see a different weapon using a kick that isn't the top of the foot or the ball of the foot.