Who Has/Hasn't The Right?

[sensei8]

Who has the right to select an Menkyo Kaiden? Someone in the Sokeship line ONLY? Administration ONLY? Executive ONLY? Student body via an election ONLY?

Just who has/hasn't the right? Is this right absolute?

I suppose that one might be asking....What is a Menkyo Kaiden?

http://www.shotokanryukaseha.com/other_languages/budo_themes/themes_2004/7_menkyo_kaiden.htm

Would the selection of said candidate be based on a personal choice or a professional choice?

[ps1]

Well the only true Menkyo Kaiden I've ever met had it awarded to him in Japan. It was only after many years of uchi deshi work. As far as who awarded it, I'm not entirely sure. While I trained under him for a year, I was never personally close with him.

Here is his bio:

http://www.seishinkan.com/martial_members_area/john_viol_daishihan_menkyokaiden.htm

[tallgeese]

Per the definition, it would seem to be by appointment via the current individual heading the system in the founders line.

[JohnASE]

I agree with tailgeese. The choosing is made by one individual. If the rest of the organization is to go along with it, they're opinions should be considered, but in the end it is one person's decision.

[sojobo]

Who has the right to select an Menkyo Kaiden? Someone in the Sokeship line ONLY? Administration ONLY? Executive ONLY? Student body via an election ONLY?

Just who has/hasn't the right? Is this right absolute?

I suppose that one might be asking....What is a Menkyo Kaiden?

http://www.shotokanryukaseha.com/other_languages/budo_themes/themes_2004/7_menkyo_kaiden.htm

Would the selection of said candidate be based on a personal choice or a professional choice?

I am confused as to why you would ask such a thing?

For starters, transmission licences are very particular to each ryu-ha.

Some have appointed heads where as others have hereditary leaders.

Either way, it has absolutely no bearing on how the gendai budo system works.

sojobo

[bushido_man96]

Usually, an organization or group or whatever would have someone in mind for when this time comes. We may not always think its the best choice, but we have to believe that the person making the choice, did so for a good reason.

[sensei8]

I am confused as to why you would ask such a thing?

LOL...Seeing that this forum is for discussing things concerning the martial arts...I create most of my topics/thread, like this one, for the sake of us to discuss 'it' amongst ourselves; to have a friendly and informative conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Our system has had only one Menkyo Kaiden: Our Dai-Soke. It was awarded to him by our Soke, shortly after Soke retired and just before Soke's death in 2008. This Menkyo Kaiden was over 60 years in the making; Dai-Soke became Soke's student in 1940.

[sojobo]

I am confused as to why you would ask such a thing?

LOL...Seeing that this forum is for discussing things concerning the martial arts...I create most of my topics/thread, like this one, for the sake of us to discuss 'it' amongst ourselves; to have a friendly and informative conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Our system has had only one Menkyo Kaiden: Our Dai-Soke. It was awarded to him by our Soke, shortly after Soke retired and just before Soke's death in 2008. This Menkyo Kaiden was over 60 years in the making; Dai-Soke became Soke's student in 1940.

The reason I asked was because the Menkyo system, is uniquely Japanese. It does not apply to Okinawan arts like Karate in any shape or form.

Its usage is with the Koryu Bujutsu systems of mainland Japan that have / had an unbroken lineage - in terms of transition / tuition within of the art.

Remembering of course, that the Koryu systems existed purely to transmit martial / military skills to the Bushi / Samurai - they do not have syllabuses in the same way that gendai budo systems do. Instead they have a catalogue of martial techniques and methods designed to teach these.

A Menkyo Keiden simply refers to the highest level of teaching license - it doesn't necessarily imply that the holder is (or is destined to become) the head of the ryu. It is recognition of the fact that the practitioner not only has a complete understanding / technical proficiency of the entire contents of the densho (that is usually achieved at Joden), but has been awarded the privilege to transmit what he has learnt (usually by the Soke of the ryu).

Some ryu have additional "secret oral" teachings at Menkyo Kaiden also and with the award of said ranks comes administrative duties in some schools (others it is just a technical license).

Sojobo

[sensei8]

The reason I asked was because the Menkyo system, is uniquely Japanese. It does not apply to Okinawan arts like Karate in any shape or form.

Are you saying that no Okinawan arts practice/use/etc Menkyo Kaiden?

[sojobo]

The reason I asked was because the Menkyo system, is uniquely Japanese. It does not apply to Okinawan arts like Karate in any shape or form.

Are you saying that no Okinawan arts practice/use/etc Menkyo Kaiden?

Historically - it does not exist. If modern groups have made it up, then that’s their business - but it is not how Okinawan arts were taught.

That’s not to say they are any better or worse, but traditionally Okinawan dojo did not follow the Menkyo pattern.

Sojobo