Martial Arts Service Excellence!!

[sensei8]

National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE) is a professional certification group that certifies professionals in the automotive repair and service industry. It is an independent, non-profit organization created in 1972 in response to consumers need to distinguish between incompetent and competent automotive technicians. The organization aims to improve the quality of vehicle repair and service through the testing and certification of repair and service professionals. Testing is done twice a year for the written version.~Wikipedia

The Official ASE website says...

http://www.ase.com/Content/NavigationMenu/ASE_Resource_Center1/About_ASE2/ASE_Profile/ASE_Profile.htm

You'll notice that any and all candidates for ASE testing must meet certain prerequisite's first....

"Upon passing at least one exam and after providing proof of two years of relevant work experience, the test taker becomes ASE certified. Certification, however, is not for life. To remain certified, those with ASE credentials must be retested every five years."

Possibly one day, those of us in the field of martial arts would have something like ASE, but MASE, so that all of the "fake" black belts in the world wouldn't be able to infect any student of the martial arts. Like shade tree mechanics of old, that were replaced by the ASE certified mechanic, perhaps the shade tree "black belt" would be replaced by those certified instructors of the martial arts in their style of expertise.

If subjecting to the government through MASE to rid us of those "fake black belts", then I'm for it. Something, and/or someone needs to stop them before the word black belt means absolutely NOTHING. I fear that the time is near us, if not already at our door step.

Let the discussion begin...

[MasterPain]

What would be the criteria?

Would a Shotokan teacher have to know Goju kata?

Would collegiate wrestling coaches need to dance the Wai Kru Ram Muay?

Would you have to have wins in sanctioned MMA fights to teach Tai Chi?

It's a nice idea to provide a standard, but standards vary greatly. A car runs well or does not, martial arts are different. There are many types of martial arts suited to too many goals. Even in similar arts there will be differences in practice that would make a set standard nearly impossible to achieve.

It is my feeling that a belt only represents your teachers belief in your ability, so the respect your belt earns is dependent on the reputation of your instructor.

Too large of an organization would result in cookie cutter martial artists. The names of martial artists that are remembered over time... Kano, Myagi, Funokoshi, Bruce Lee- these people were innovators. Innovators tend to be silenced by a set standard. Often the ones we remember are the ones that shake the structure that exists in their era. Einstein's high school teacher called him an idiot.

If such an organization existed, they could take board breaking and kata off of your tests, or make us light contact point spar on ours in place of the usual beatings. Either would be an outrage.

Martial arts is a form of expression, to stifle anyone's expression is a dangerous path to walk and a bad precedent. Let others do what they want, even if it's dumb.

[Groinstrike]

What would be the criteria?

Would a Shotokan teacher have to know Goju kata?

Would collegiate wrestling coaches need to dance the Wai Kru Ram Muay?

Would you have to have wins in sanctioned MMA fights to teach Tai Chi?

It's a nice idea to provide a standard, but standards vary greatly. A car runs well or does not, martial arts are different. There are many types of martial arts suited to too many goals. Even in similar arts there will be differences in practice that would make a set standard nearly impossible to achieve.

It is my feeling that a belt only represents your teachers belief in your ability, so the respect your belt earns is dependent on the reputation of your instructor.

Too large of an organization would result in cookie cutter martial artists. The names of martial artists that are remembered over time... Kano, Myagi, Funokoshi, Bruce Lee- these people were innovators. Innovators tend to be silenced by a set standard. Often the ones we remember are the ones that shake the structure that exists in their era. Einstein's high school teacher called him an idiot.

If such an organization existed, they could take board breaking and kata off of your tests, or make us light contact point spar on ours in place of the usual beatings. Either would be an outrage.

Martial arts is a form of expression, to stifle anyone's expression is a dangerous path to walk and a bad precedent. Let others do what they want, even if it's dumb.

Well said, in my opinion, the government can screw up a cup of coffee. Governement intervention in any field usually leads to a bureaucratic, inefficient process where nothing gets done. It would be a shame for the government to stick its nose in something as expressive at martial arts. Government intervention would be a far worse thing in the long run than illegitamate teachers.

[honoluludesktop]

Institutional certification for any martial art would be disaster. Who would pay for this, the tax payer? This is not the same as making sure that drugs are OK. Who would create, and administer the test, keep the records, etc., the JKA, WKF, USANKF champions, or the people interested in taking control of a organization ultimately for their own benefit?

[Jeffrey]

Institutional certification for any martial art would be disaster. Who would pay for this, the tax payer? This is not the same as making sure that drugs are OK. Who would create, and administer the test, keep the records, etc., the JKA, WKF, USANKF champions, or the people interested in taking control of a organization ultimately for their own benefit?

As anyone could fear. This could end up being a polictal nightmare. In a perfect world it would be nice to have but the end result could just make things worse.

[sensei8]

Let's forget the belt. It's being tromped upon by those groups that have never earned any belt, let alone a black belt. What they do in the name of money should be illegal in some way or another.

Call it what you would want to, but I want those who are fakes and liars stopped at any effective legal means in the name of the martial arts. I don't want government intervention no more than anyone else, but something has to be done to erase these fake black belts from condemning innocent students to a fate of believing in a false securities concerning their abilities.

Whatever ASE does, it seems to work in that field, and I don't see the ASE has ever been accused of anything inappropriate for there own liberties and self-aggrandizement.

ASE is also an non-profit organization. Who pays for the testing and the like? The mechanic's do. Who keeps the records? ASE does. Who creates the testing questions? Master Mechanics from different automotive/truck fields, and these Master Mechanics have been chosen to a ASE board for that purpose only.

I've no idea if a MASE certification would work. I've no idea on how one would create an organization with the martial arts in mind. I've no idea how one could get a room full of well known and respected masters to agree on anything except that they don't agree on the 1, 2, 3... and/or the A, B, C. Style A and style B will never agree because of their own methodology and because of their own agenda; to them, that's more important than the whole. Is it better for the one or is it better for the multitude?

As long as we just turn our heads away and act like it doesn't matter that the false black belts commit their acts of dishonesty, and that's what a fake black belt does, then they will continue going unchecked and free to abuse innocent students in all four corners of the world.

I didn't say it was a good idea. I just provided an idea for us here at KF to discuss among ourselves in it's possibility as well as it's impossibility. If someone can ever come up with a working model that will benefit the true martial artists as well as the martial arts itself in a whole, well, I'd be interested to try it.

[sensei8]

Institutional certification for any martial art would be disaster. Who would pay for this, the tax payer? This is not the same as making sure that drugs are OK. Who would create, and administer the test, keep the records, etc., the JKA, WKF, USANKF champions, or the people interested in taking control of a organization ultimately for their own benefit?

As anyone could fear. This could end up being a polictal nightmare. In a perfect world it would be nice to have but the end result could just make things worse.

Isn't that just an assumption? It hasn't been tried, and in that, there's no way of truly knowing if "it" will work or not.

[sensei8]

What would be the criteria?

Would a Shotokan teacher have to know Goju kata?

Would collegiate wrestling coaches need to dance the Wai Kru Ram Muay?

Would you have to have wins in sanctioned MMA fights to teach Tai Chi?

It's a nice idea to provide a standard, but standards vary greatly. A car runs well or does not, martial arts are different. There are many types of martial arts suited to too many goals. Even in similar arts there will be differences in practice that would make a set standard nearly impossible to achieve.

It is my feeling that a belt only represents your teachers belief in your ability, so the respect your belt earns is dependent on the reputation of your instructor.

Too large of an organization would result in cookie cutter martial artists. The names of martial artists that are remembered over time... Kano, Myagi, Funokoshi, Bruce Lee- these people were innovators. Innovators tend to be silenced by a set standard. Often the ones we remember are the ones that shake the structure that exists in their era. Einstein's high school teacher called him an idiot.

If such an organization existed, they could take board breaking and kata off of your tests, or make us light contact point spar on ours in place of the usual beatings. Either would be an outrage.

Martial arts is a form of expression, to stifle anyone's expression is a dangerous path to walk and a bad precedent. Let others do what they want, even if it's dumb.

Who truly has the correct answer for every possible question? I've not meet that person yet, and I know I'm not him.

Let's forget the government because they're having a hard enough time governing themselves, imho.

Nothing, imho, can stifle ones martial arts journey. I'm just spit-balling here, but possibly an organization like MASE., for example, would only protect those who hold legitimate ranks from legitimate organizations like the JKA and/or the SKIF. Possibly an organization that could be there to act as a means of being a non-bias voice for our students.

Again, I don't have all of the answers. I'm just one person.

[Jeffrey]

I think in the end it might strenghten our own arts and to make sure that they are kept to a high standand of training. But those who teach poorly will contuine to exist. It is a sad truth. I know not anyone who would have the answers either. But I do know who has the answers to everything we do and that is us. Each one of us has to have a personal drive to make what we do each day in life and in the martial arts our personal best. To pass on those values we hold true to our students in hopes they will pass them on to theirs. It's a simple dream.

[honoluludesktop]

No need to reinvent the wheel. The USANKF has a system in place that will certify your dan grade by their standards. You join their organization (one year minimum), pay a fee for the exam, submit proof of you current grading, and a short dissertation on karate. In front a panel of senior karate-ka of different ruy, you do kata, and kumite. Assuming you pass, the panel will issue a grade not to exceed the rank you submit proof for. If you fail, I think you can try again without paying another fee. The exams are conducted around the country, typically at locations of their tournaments.

All that's left is for each State Government to require this certification for all Karateka.