scott sonnon, george dillman, and systema head instructors

[Smoke]

Yeah, same here.

I don't know this site's standing on heated debates.

I've tried pressure points on resistant people, not a good idea.

[MasterPain]

You should do some research into what they are all about. There are many different opinions about what Dillman does, ranging from studies backed with test results, and the more easy to find blatant put-downs that are out there. Look for some things with comparisons and studies backing them, and judge for yourself.

We are of the opinion that 80 percent of Dillman's stuff is great. The rest seems like it's just for show or maybe hypnosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSzSflkns8

80% of it is great? 80% of Dillman's curriculum consists of pressure points and chi.

I would like to hear the opinion of others on pressure point fighting.

I'm not going to overly defend Dillman,. However, I've seen some of his books and the pressure points are useful. That being said, it's not Death touch, and I think no one can do a no touch knockout. I think anyone will agree that a punch on the jawline is better than a punch on a cheekbone. A kick to the liver is better than a kick 6 inches higher. Fighters who don't believe in pressure points use some of the simpler ones. I think it's useful to study pressure points, but it would be silly to stake all of your training on them. What you can find on youtube of Dillman is the stuff I don't care for, and that influences the opinions of sensible people about everything else he's involved with.

[sensei8]

Imho, my style practices Kyusho-Jitsu in its relationship with Tuite, and the one thing that I've noticed over the many years, is that it's a hit-and-miss relationship. Some points are 100% hits and some other hits aren't, depending on both the practitioner as well as the person who receives said hits. Pain thresholds can make or break Kyusho-Jitsu! The intensity at which a stimulus begins to evoke pain varies from individual to individual and for a given individual over time.

Nothing ventured is nothing gained. Try it....you might like it.

[sojobo]

Most "atemi" based styles have (or should have) an understanding of kyusho.

There is nothing magical or mythical about it. Talk to modern day professional control and restraint specialist and they will tell you the same thing.

sojobo

[isshinryu5toforever]

I think kyusho-jitsu can be something interesting to study to keep you from getting bored with Karate. That said, I don't think I could say Kyusho-jitsu is practical in self-defense terms.

George Dillman is definitely a pressure point expert. He knows what he is doing with pressure points, and he does it all very well, but his antics keep him from being taken seriously. No-touch knockouts, energy balls, and the like are what make people think martial artists are a bunch of mystics jumping around in white pajamas.

The video of the kiyai master being head punched by the MMA guy has been posted on this forum numerous times. That hurts traditional martial arts, and so does a lot of the stuff Dillman does.

[MMA_Jim]

George Dillman is definitely a pressure point expert. He knows what he is doing with pressure points, and he does it all very well, but his antics keep him from being taken seriously. No-touch knockouts, energy balls, and the like are what make people think martial artists are a bunch of mystics jumping around in white pajamas.

Well, in my opinion most "pressure point experts" are severely lacking in anything I would call effective self defense techniques. Dillman carrying that label doesnt lend him any credibility in my book.

Someone else mentioned an overly vague description of pressure points- hitting the chin, hitting the liver, etc. Thats about as far as one can go with pressure points.

Why arent pressure points valid self defense techniques? I'll tell you:

1: Pressure points do not work on all people. Some people it hurts very much, others will stand and look at you like you've got a head growing out of your shoulder. This brings us to the next point

2: Pressure points rely on pain compliance. Anything that relies on pain isnt very reliable in my book, because pain can be ignored. Alcohol, drugs, adrenaline- all of these will skew the results of your pressure point techniques.

3: They look very effective when demo'ed- mostly because they're being done on people that believe them to work, and such people are in a relaxed state. Its easy to hit particular nerve clusters when your muscles are relaxed. When the blood starts pumping and you're in fight mode, your muscles contract and protect the vast majority of these points.

There you have it-I wouldnt buy into it. Fighting is a science like any other physical activity- hockey, football, baseball, baseketball, etc. There are ways to be good fighters and they've been well established. Often the answer is right in front of your face.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't think I ever said Dillman was a great teacher of self-defense. Some knowledge is kept alive for the sake of keeping it alive. The sword arts are a good example of this. My friend was a collegiate fencer, but I wouldn't say she's a self-defense expert.

Not EVERY modern martial art has to be self-defense centered. That isn't what most people want. YOU might want it, but not everyone is you. Some people just want exercise, that's why my fiance does TKD. Some people are attracted to martial arts from a certain area, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, for whatever their own reason is. They just have to be honest with themselves.

As far as Dillman, he went from martial artist to showman a long time ago.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Also, if you're going to quote me, please quote the entirety of my post. Especially the part where I say, Kyusho jitsu isn't legitimate self defense, and we have the video of the kiai master getting punched in the face already posted.

[bushido_man96]

As far as LEO experience goes, pressure points can be good on the passive resister, but when it comes to full on active resistance, not so reliable. At that point, going for larger clusters like the common peroneal or the brachial stun serve you better. They are easier targets to hit, and offer more reliable results (unless your scrapping with a Thai Boxer...). However, the better option is to just escalate to something like OC, Taser, or even baton.

[Jay]

George Dillman is definitely a pressure point expert. He knows what he is doing with pressure points, and he does it all very well, but his antics keep him from being taken seriously. No-touch knockouts, energy balls, and the like are what make people think martial artists are a bunch of mystics jumping around in white pajamas.

Well, in my opinion most "pressure point experts" are severely lacking in anything I would call effective self defense techniques. Dillman carrying that label doesnt lend him any credibility in my book.

Someone else mentioned an overly vague description of pressure points- hitting the chin, hitting the liver, etc. Thats about as far as one can go with pressure points.

Why arent pressure points valid self defense techniques? I'll tell you:

1: Pressure points do not work on all people. Some people it hurts very much, others will stand and look at you like you've got a head growing out of your shoulder. This brings us to the next point

2: Pressure points rely on pain compliance. Anything that relies on pain isnt very reliable in my book, because pain can be ignored. Alcohol, drugs, adrenaline- all of these will skew the results of your pressure point techniques.

3: They look very effective when demo'ed- mostly because they're being done on people that believe them to work, and such people are in a relaxed state. Its easy to hit particular nerve clusters when your muscles are relaxed. When the blood starts pumping and you're in fight mode, your muscles contract and protect the vast majority of these points.

There you have it-I wouldnt buy into it. Fighting is a science like any other physical activity- hockey, football, baseball, baseketball, etc. There are ways to be good fighters and they've been well established. Often the answer is right in front of your face.

I agree, In my experience they don't work on everyone, I tend to think they are more a gimick that anything else. I mean I can usually find one that works on pretty much everyone but whats the point when the other guy is murdering you.