McDojos

[MasterPain]

I think you have us confused with LARPer ninjas. While our focus is self defense, our school and associates have decent fight records.

EDIT: I mean no offense to Larper ninjas, so please don't call Gong Sau.

[brickshooter]

I am 145 pounds, i am decently strong for my size, but nothing to brag about. I am a 2nd degree brown belt in my system and do not have extremely powerful strikes.

An athletic 145lbs is borderline weight to knock most people out with bare knuckles. You just need to incorporate impact training (punching bag, punching blocks, makiwara, etc) into your training.

[Sokusen]

Just so we know I didn't write the above statement even though I am quoted.

MMA-Jim I think one of the misconceptions you have with "karate" and not being able to punch properly maybe that some students you come across don't move beyond the basics. I am lucky to have a teacher who started out as a boxer and then moved onto Uechi ryu, so I get a nice mix of both. Even though he has the boxing background he starts beginners with the typical chamber and punch, this is a training tool much like a swimmer will drag the backs of there hands through the water to force them to keep there elbows high during the crawl storoke. No one expects them to swim a race like that and my teacher would never tell a student to fight with a chambered punch. When the student learns to use there hips and legs for the strike then the student moves beyond the chambered punch. You may not agree with the teaching methods but but try not to assume you and your chool are the only ones who know how to throw a good punch.

[GeoGiant]

I have to agree with points made by MMA_Jim & Sokusen. While I don't think that karate is all about fighting, I am disappointed when I see someone with little to no fighting ability being advanced.

[sensei8]

McDojo's aren't the only culprit's in the chambered fist belief. Schools opened up by those "teacher's" with very limited knowledge or none across the board. McFakes, are equally guilty of teaching something that they've not even a minimum idea about.

[brickshooter]

MMAJim. I think you're mistaken about the chambering of the fist in a Karate punch. It's simply a training tool to train muscle memory to ensure that the body starts into the target before the punch. It's the same concept as a boxing cross or hook. The body goes into the target before the hands.

But instead of the punching hand cocking at the shoulder, Karate cocks the hand at the midlevel - the waist. In theory. Because in reality, it doesn't really matter. The Karate guy is concern about upper-lower body rotation and weight transfer. Not chambering, not fist rotation.

However, one thing that is interesting is that MMAJim did have traditional Martial Arts training. Yet his instructor failed to explained this to him. So I do understand his skepticism of traditional martial arts instruction.

But how could you blame MMAJim if one thinks about the level of instructions nowadays, particularly here in the United States? We hav self-promoted 30 year old "grandmasters," and 40 year old "supreme grandmasters" executing flawed technique while armed with very mediocre understanding of the basics.

BTW MMAJim. Enjoy MMA for now. I suspect that in about 5 years, we're going to see McMMA Gyms supplementing the MdDojos. And it'll be very difficult to find decent instructions.

Just my 2 cents.

[MasterPain]

BTW MMAJim. Enjoy MMA for now. I suspect that in about 5 years, we're going to see McMMA Gyms supplementing the MdDojos. And it'll be very difficult to find decent instructions.

Just my 2 cents.

It's already happening. People are taking complete newbies, training them for 2 months and throwing them to the wolves. You'll still see the good stuff on TV, but amateur shows have all kinds of people who don't belong there.

[evergrey]

There's at least one MMA gym in a Wal-Mart.

Tons of places are cashing in on the MMA craze without REALLY knowing how to do it properly. Just as there are tons of McDojos and belt factories. And tools with tap-out shirts starting fights in What-A-Burger, heh.

But there can be found great martial artists in a variety of styles. Sometimes it comes down to the instructor and the martial artist themself more than the style... though some styles are a little more practical than others, and some focus more on fitness, or looking pretty, or self-esteem.

Meh. Focus on your own training. That's the really important thing. OSU!

[Adonis]

yeah there is already mcmma gyms every where. I was in missouri for a littile bit 4 years ago. I saw fighters competing in local shows that were terrible. Once legiit bjj/mma fighters came into the show, it drove some of those other guys out really quickly as they soon descovered they couldn't really hang with those guys much less beat them.

Any way that was mostly because of mcdojo's or mcfakes sprouting up and jumping on the UFC/MMA band wagon you see gyms offering mma training and they are terrible. Offering terrible instruction on techniques. Its painful to watch.

Its happening already, I feel bad for the people who put in the time and effort and not get the credit due while some joker with crappy skills but has better marketing makes the money. Same thing as how I feel about legit TMA guys who put in the time and work to advance in rank and develop legit skills. But don't get credit becasue some 25 year old grand master with terrible technique and a made up (on his own accord) own style. But has decent marketing is geting the students and recoginition. Buyer beware right?

[Thoop]

I am 145 pounds, i am decently strong for my size, but nothing to brag about. I am a 2nd degree brown belt in my system and do not have extremely powerful strikes.

An athletic 145lbs is borderline weight to knock most people out with bare knuckles. You just need to incorporate impact training (punching bag, punching blocks, makiwara, etc) into your training.

I would argue that you can be much lighter than 145 pounds and still knock people out. Here is a quote from an article that I read some time back.

"A study of seven Olympic boxers in weight classes ranging from flyweight to super heavyweight showed a range of 447 to 1,066 pounds of peak punching force. Energy transferred from punch to target varied widely depending on how heavy the boxers' hands and gloves were, how fast they punched, and how rigidly they held their wrists. The three flyweights, interestingly, delivered more oomph than all but the two super heavyweights."

The full article can be found here: http://www.connectsavannah.com/news/article/102548/

Given that a quick search of the internet will reveal that it is generally agreed that 400 pounds of punching force to the temple will knock just about anybody out, I think that it is safe to say that even a very small person (flyweights are a maximum of 112 lbs) can be a force to be reckoned with, given they have put in the effort to get good at punching.

Also, I don't claim to practice karate in it's entirety, but I do study it to an extent, and I don't really think that the "fist chamber" was ever supposed to have anything to do with the generation of power or development of technique in beginners. Rather, I suspect that it was originally intended to be used in a grabbing and pulling manner on the opponents sleeve, lapel, and maybe even bare arm. This is further supported by the fact the the word "Hikite," which is what the "fist chamber" is actually called, translates to "pulling hand."

A source to support this includes Choki Motobu's book “Watashi no Karate-jutsu" where Motobu demonstrates the naihanchi kata and then shows some applications. In the applications, Motubu can clearly be seen using the hikite found in the kata to pull his opponent by the arm into his punch, elbow, or block. I am not sure, but I think it was he who said "Never bring your hand back empty."

Well, I have to be off to class.

Best wishes.