McDojos

[rmurray]

Most people try to do the best they can. Who is so wise and impartial that we appoint them to determine which schools are McDojos and which are not? Try to compare martial arts training to a college education. Not all schools are equal, and nobody expects them to be. Everybody knows that a degree from Stanford or MIT comes at a much greater cost (both in financial investment and acedemic effort/achievement) than a degree from an accredited online university. Brown University doesn't have the right to tell the University of Pheonix to make their curriculum more difficult. The Yale graduate doesn't sit around calling for the closure of Devry University or Everest college. And why would they? The student who puts in the hard work enjoys the benefit of a better education. Who can say that the students of a so called McDojo aren't getting something worthwhile? Do your own thing. Who cares what other schools are doing?

[sensei8]

Most people try to do the best they can. Who is so wise and impartial that we appoint them to determine which schools are McDojos and which are not? Try to compare martial arts training to a college education. Not all schools are equal, and nobody expects them to be. Everybody knows that a degree from Stanford or MIT comes at a much greater cost (both in financial investment and acedemic effort/achievement) than a degree from an accredited online university. Brown University doesn't have the right to tell the University of Pheonix to make their curriculum more difficult. The Yale graduate doesn't sit around calling for the closure of Devry University or Everest college. And why would they? The student who puts in the hard work enjoys the benefit of a better education. Who can say that the students of a so called McDojo aren't getting something worthwhile? Do your own thing. Who cares what other schools are doing?

Very solid post!!

I've no problem with McDojo's as a whole. Sure, they do some things that I don't like, but, I'm sure that I do things that would bother them.

Having said that, the only "school" of the martial arts that I can't stand are those ran by "fake black belts". A "fake black belt" is one who's never had a lesson or not very many lessons, you can decide what "many" means. Then they buy a black belt and open a school under a guise to "rip off" some innocent students, and again, you can decide what "rip off" means.

A legitimate black belt earned from a "McDojo" is STILL a legitimate black belt, and you can decide what a "McDojo" and "legitimate" is .

Again, your post here is very solid across the board, and I personally thank you for posting it...SOLID!!

Now...let's just train hard!!

[ninjanurse]

I agree here-good post. The term can be interpreted in many ways-what it comes down to is legitimacy, not how many belts they have or how much money they charge.

[rmurray]

That is high praise coming from you sensei8. I've always found your posts to be very wise. I don't mean to speak out of both sides of my mouth here; but for the original poster: One night at class this woman showed up. She was a "blackbelt" from northern CA. I think she had recently moved to the area and was looking for a new dojo. Her belt must have been four inches wide, way too long, and elaborately decorated with flashy gold characters, the knot was as big as big as my fist with both ends hanging out about 14 inches. It looked ridiculous. This woman (besides not knowing any katas) demonstrated the weakest "karate" I have ever seen. She held her hands in front of her face, elbows pointed out. She looked like the Notre Dame fighting irish decal. We were working out with pads that night and she couldn't generate any kind of power and seemed to have no concept of distancing. She would cock her elbows way back before every punch. She didn't use her hips at all, it was terrible. Any whitebelt in our class could thrash this woman in no time at all. It made me think; there is some dojo in northern California that will give a gaudy, oversized blackbelt to anybody. Do you want fries with that?

[Smoke]

[

Very solid post!!

I've no problem with McDojo's as a whole. Sure, they do some things that I don't like, but, I'm sure that I do things that would bother them.

Having said that, the only "school" of the martial arts that I can't stand are those ran by "fake black belts". A "fake black belt" is one who's never had a lesson or not very many lessons, you can decide what "many" means. Then they buy a black belt and open a school under a guise to "rip off" some innocent students, and again, you can decide what "rip off" means.

A legitimate black belt earned from a "McDojo" is STILL a legitimate black belt, and you can decide what a "McDojo" and "legitimate" is .

Again, your post here is very solid across the board, and I personally thank you for posting it...SOLID!!

Now...let's just train hard!!

Sigh... I have to agree with you. Every school has their curriculum. We all don't use the same ruler to measure what is a black belt, and what isn't.

There is no universal term/definition for black belt.

[senseikellam]

I totally agree with other posters! Everyone has to decide what is right for themselves! Not everyone has the resources of Chuck Norris, Cynthia Rothrock, or other famous artist, so just do the best you can for yourself!

[PoppaDLo]

I have a dojo that I can see from my house that test on a set schedule. It sickens me that if the student is not ready they are able to don their new belt, ready to proudly wear it or not. Had a mom at the dojo my son goes to tell me just today that her sister's little one got a scholarship from school that entitled him to a set number of classes. He went to two in a few week span and upon arriving for the third (Yep 3rd class) he was on the roster for the next test with the rest of the class. When the parent questioned it, the response on why they were testing so soon was this "He is testing with the rest of his class right on schedule." COME ON.

[Adonis]

People will define the term mcdojo diffrently. To me it means low qaulity instruction & Training.

After several years of martial arts, example trianing in a striking style, your still punching with your wrist bent, no hip/shoulder/foot rotation, weight dropping or lifting, or driving off the rear foot and its just all arm punching. Its just ineffective and poor fundamentals which reeks of mcdojo training. However you can't judge dojo off of one person as you don't know if they are low level of the school student, averate or the elite skill level of their particular dojo.

Either way can't change the world their will always be mcdojo's out there. As long as people fill like there training is reaching their goals, and like training at their particluar school or dojo then big deal right? Have fun enjoy what your doing. Keep training and improving.

[MMA_Jim]

Most people try to do the best they can. Who is so wise and impartial that we appoint them to determine which schools are McDojos and which are not? Try to compare martial arts training to a college education. Not all schools are equal, and nobody expects them to be. Everybody knows that a degree from Stanford or MIT comes at a much greater cost (both in financial investment and acedemic effort/achievement) than a degree from an accredited online university. Brown University doesn't have the right to tell the University of Pheonix to make their curriculum more difficult. The Yale graduate doesn't sit around calling for the closure of Devry University or Everest college. And why would they? The student who puts in the hard work enjoys the benefit of a better education. Who can say that the students of a so called McDojo aren't getting something worthwhile? Do your own thing. Who cares what other schools are doing?

You're overlooking an awful lot. Who cares what other schools are doing? Perhaps people looking for quality martial arts/self defense instruction. The difference between your college comparison analogy is that both the colleges you mention produce people who can compete in the same field in the real world- the same does not hold true for martial arts.

One has to consider that people who first start looking for martial arts instruction know nothing about it (hence the reason for them being called beginners). Lets not also forget about the decades of mis-information that hollywood martial arts movies had fed people. So here comes this people with a genuine interest in learning how to fight. The instructor is passive thinking that he enjoys teaching people how to do katas and chamber punches from the hip simply because thats what he likes to do- whos to judge him from what hes teaching? ME

How many people in the class really think they know how to defend themselves? How much exposure has this person given his students to a fully resisting opponent? After all make no mistake- martial arts are about fighting. You are practicing punching and kicking (or otherwise attacking) an opponent plain and simple.

So lets assume this person is a woman who's taken up martial arts to avoid being assaulted. She does all her katas, chambers the punches in the hip, and can hold a horse stance for a long time. After all, after a few years, shes one of the schools best black belts. Now comes the time late at night that some guy tries to attack her. No problem she thinks- Im a BLACK BELT and this guy doesnt know what hes getting into. But things are different- this guy is hitting her full force, her katas arent helping her, and her strikes have no power. She is quickly overwhelmed. Its not her fault- she wasnt taught properly how to fight. But she invested her trust in an instructor who had no clue what he was teaching, but no one stepped up to the plate to inform his students that trying to fight the way this guy was teaching it is WRONG.

I used to do kung fu, karate, TKD, and TSD. I remember one of my friends telling me about this UFC stuff. "Pfft, get a REAL black belt in there and he'll teach these goons a thing or two about fighting." When I first watched, I was screaming for Royce Gracie's head- "knee him in the face when he shoots!" After watching enough fights, I had realized what I was training in simply wasnt on the same field as many of the other styles proven in the cage and the ring. I felt betrayed- taken advantage of. I genuinely thought I was being taught how to fight effectively. But here it was nothing more than a bunch of guys who lied to themselves and to me when it came to learning how to fight. I had absolute faith in my experience, but when I was humbled I was ever so gratefull for it. If this jiu jitsu guy didnt straight up show me what I was doing wasnt effective, I would have never learned how to fight effectively. For that I am eternally gratefull, and Im positive there are others out there who are just like I was back then, but simply dont know because it doesnt cross their mind that anyone can open a school, call themselves a "black belt" and teach whatever they want.

[Sokusen]

I used to do kung fu, karate, TKD, and TSD. I remember one of my friends telling me about this UFC stuff. "Pfft, get a REAL black belt in there and he'll teach these goons a thing or two about fighting." When I first watched, I was screaming for Royce Gracie's head- "knee him in the face when he shoots!" After watching enough fights, I had realized what I was training in simply wasnt on the same field as many of the other styles proven in the cage and the ring. I felt betrayed- taken advantage of. I genuinely thought I was being taught how to fight effectively. But here it was nothing more than a bunch of guys who lied to themselves and to me when it came to learning how to fight. I had absolute faith in my experience, but when I was humbled I was ever so gratefull for it. If this jiu jitsu guy didnt straight up show me what I was doing wasnt effective, I would have never learned how to fight effectively. For that I am eternally gratefull, and Im positive there are others out there who are just like I was back then, but simply dont know because it doesnt cross their mind that anyone can open a school, call themselves a "black belt" and teach whatever they want.

I am a little confused at what you would consider the criteria for what a black belt means. Maybe I am misinterpreting your post but it seems to be saying that if you can't step into a ring with a professional fighter then you must have learned from a McDojo and your black belt is worthless. Or if you happen to get mugged on the street then your black belt is worthless. I think we can all agree that this type of criteria is a little harsh. Anyone can get mugged be it Chuck Liddell or the soccer Mom. And there is a very small percentage of people in this world with the drive and athleticism to step into the ring.

I remember seeing a video on YouTube of a demonstration put on by Master Shinjo in Okinawa. All you see is the upper torso of an older Okinawan gentlemen and he is holding his arm out in front of him. Master Shinjo then proceeds to hit his arm with a Bat there by breaking the bat over his arm. The video then pans out and you see the man grab his crutches and walk off the stage, he appeared to have some sort of muscular dystrophy. Now I found this to be very impressive on many levels. In reality I could probably beat this man to a pulp considering he could barley walk, but does that mean he is not deserved of a black belt? Setting a very stringent sweeping set of criteria over multiple disciples is a very ignorant way of looking at the martial arts. Ultimately it’s up to the individual who wants to learn, they have something in mind they want to learn and they pick a school accordingly. Then it becomes buyer beware.

Obviously nobody thinks a person buying there black belt and opening a school to teach whatever they teach should be allowed. I would not put that under the label McDojo but rather label it a con-artist.