Momentum VS Pressure!?

[sensei8]

Momentum...force...pressure...they are not different variables, but rather are related to each other.

Who wins? Who loses? Momentum? Pressure? Both, because they differ depending on targets and in which way that those targets are attacked. Imho, one methodology is no better than another because they have their own properties to consider and that alone makes them both valued by an open hand or a closed fist or even a kick.

Your thoughts?

[sensei8]

Another one of my uninterested topics strike again!!

[JusticeZero]

It's not that i'm uninterested as much as that the entire post is really meaningless to me from my perspective. Momentum vs. force? 'Which one wins, muscle or physical strength?' Pressure? What do you mean by pressure? And what does it have to do with moving? And why are we doing versus comparisons on any of these things to begin with? The language just does not link up here at all. Sorry.

[sensei8]

Momentum transfer takes place when you walk with your arms swinging freely. This is a case of reverse-rotation forces, helping to keep balance in this case...no damage done, and some momentum from the body is transferred to the arms. The body, being much heavier than the arms doesn't effect any near-complete momentum transfer under usual walking conditions. Of course, with more hip dynamics, reverse-rotation can become an important dynamic force for blocking, striking, punching, and so on and so forth.

As an example of momentum-transfer to a target, if you back-fist strike to the face of an opponent, it's likely that the momentum-transfer will snap back his/her head, illustrating that momentum has been transferred from your fist to his/her head. I pick the strike-snap to illustrate this, as the focus generally is not deep into the target or at least does not follow the target, and so it's clear that the head is snapping back due to momentum transfer and not "pushing." Often there's damage incurred in the target, such as broken bone caused by extreme pressure at the point of contact.

Momentum, force, pressure aren't different variables as suggested by the question, but rather are related to each other. Impact force is often best described as the transfer of momentum divided by the short time momentum is being transferred. Pressure is the force divided by the area over which it is acting.

If a thrusting technique happens to deposit all its energy into a target, then it may be possible to reasonably calculate the energy deposited into the target as one-half the square of the velocity of the projectile times its mass.

Large pressure waves can often break a bone. If the striking hand were open instead of a fist, whereas there might have been enough pressure from a knuckle of the fist making contact with the face, it's possibly likely that on impact the same force would be spread over a large enough area so that there wouldn't be sufficient pressure to break bone, though the momentum transfer likely would be comparable to cause the head to snap back as well...allowing for some additional momentum not present that would have gone into the momentum of broken fragments of bone in the case of using a fist.

The above gives some general description of the nature of momentum and pressure acting in a karate technique.

[Tzu-Logic]

This seems like the mathematical end to a lot of the principals of striking I've learned.

I've learned a fluid style of striking that is about the momentum in your arms more than the force of your muscles. We are taught that "muscling through" the punches or techniques is not the proper way.

The momentum behind a punch is more easily transfered when the arm is more relaxed and the muscles are not fighting each other.

We train knocking over those big freestanding heavy bags with our punches and when you doing it right, and transfering all of your momentum into the target properly it feels effortless to knock it over. If you feel like your "pushing" then you probably aren't hitting it right...

I guess I'm just trying to see your post in a way that relates to me. And I am posting it just see if I am on track here or not.

[JusticeZero]

yes, once again, the post appears deep, but it is unclear where the hook where we can respond is. It seems to distill down to "Kinetic energy is awesome, huh?" I don't really see any good way to respond to that. I can't really argue against it, even as a devils' advocate position. Like a question that never quite gets around to stating what is being asked. Is there some particular angle to this that you wanted to know about, contrast, or similar, s8?

[Lee M]

Momentum as in continued attack?

Pressure as in keeping up the attack.

Constant forward pressure wins fights for sure.

[sensei8]

Momentum as in continued attack?

Pressure as in keeping up the attack.

Constant forward pressure wins fights for sure.

Nope. Momentum/pressure when it comes to breaking a bone, for example.

[Tempest]

Pressure for me.

Bones can be actually rather difficult to break by just delivering momentum to to them, but they do have weak points, normally at the joints, that can be exploited by an application of pressure.

Also, human bodies have so many weaknesses that can be exploited by pressure, whereas momentum, until you reach a certain level, can be absorbed rather effectively by human bodies.

[Alan Armstrong]

Isn't momentum something that picks up speed as it travels, such as a rolling snowball?

Isn't pressure a varible exertion of force? Also fluctuationing pressure such as in the atmosphere? Or sudden pressure and low/high pressure!

If I fire an arrow in to the sky, the arrow looses momentum the higher it gets. Then as the arrow falls to earth it picks up momentum.

When the arrow hits the ground, the speed of the arrow slows down considerably and depending on the connecting arrow head and softness/hardness of the ground, pressure and force can be measured.

Centrifugal force as in a backfist picks up speed (momentum) and depending how fast the person is spinning and the density of the fist when it's connecting (force) to the head, it can exert deeper (pressure) damage.

More momentum equals more force causing more damage connecting pressure to the target.