It Punches All By Itself!!

[sensei8]

Does your punch depend on your stance?

Does your punch work independently from your stance?

What about your pulling hand? Does your pulling hand even help at all?

For most people, the pulling hand is a convenient device until they can truly feel and initiate powerful motions directly from the torso.

Maximum power is not always the goal of every technique.

Your thoughts?

[ps1]

Does your punch depend on your stance?

Yes. I always want to throw my hip into a punch. Therefore, the punch I use will be dependent on the position of my hips at the time.

Does your punch work independently from your stance?

I prefer it not to. When i am punching, I always want my hips and footwork to work with it. Anytime my hands start moving independently of my footwork I'm off balance and not in a good position to defend. This is what I want to happen to my opponent, not to me.

What about your pulling hand? Does your pulling hand even help at all?

It defends my chin...or pulls my opponent into the strike.

For most people, the pulling hand is a convenient device until they can truly feel and initiate powerful motions directly from the torso.

Perhaps. Not sure. Most of they guys I deal with are boxers now. So they don't have your traditional hikite so to speak. The mistake they tend to make as beginners is trying to get power by just using the arm rather than the core.

Maximum power is not always the goal of every technique.

Absolutely true. I use several techniques to simply gauge distance and set my opponent up for other strikes.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Does your punch depend on your stance?

The power of the punch definitely depends on stance, but the punch itself doesn't. More on that later.

Does your punch work independently from your stance?

A punch that is being used as a setup or fake could be used independently. One example I can think of is a right cross into a left hook. Your footwork might lead you into the left hook, but the right cross is there as a fake. It isn't thrown full power, but it is thrown full speed.

What about your pulling hand? Does your pulling hand even help at all?

The pulling hand helps hip and shoulder alignment.

I think most of this will depend on the person doing the punching. Some of the heavier punchers in the group can get away with a lot more holes in their technique than some of the weaker punchers.

[zalexia]

for the stance question, i was told ur back foot should really be at 0 gravity meaning u can throw a punch or a kick at any time so in a fighting situation ur moving all around so stances are important for a technical point of view but from a fighting point may not always happen.

if u pre pull ur hand back they're gonna know ur gonna punch them and get ready for the block. Also if they're faster than u leaves you open for a counter when ur not blocking cause ur pulled back.watch boxing they never show which hands gonna throw first. practicing hip rotation is where ur power actually comes from.

i always swear by watching crappy action videos /movies. The guy says kill them and a girls fist will barely make a scratch but yet he falls out a 3 story window.

key is to not let ur opponent know what ur doing even in sparring ur fighting stances should be minimal not only would having a wide stance be bad , they could foot sweep u and u end up on the ground.

power of the punches is in your hip rotation and then when ur coming through u want to pretty much pretend theres a brick wall infront of you u have to move.

Also moving brings u power i find doing a shuffle step and grinding that back foot adds more drive for the punch plus it was a great tool for me to learn when to stop hyperextending.

btw hyperextending brings pain.

just keep reminding urself u gotta go through a person thats probably bigger then u watch uerself in the mirror and ask urself does that look like its gonna scare ur opponent. thats kinda what i do when i know i'm not strong on something. just dont punch the mirror.

I had trouble hyperextending my arm too much as soon as they got stronger. there is also a flick at the end atleast what i was told that will drive ur punch through the person instead of pushing the person w/ ur fist.

[bushido_man96]

Does your punch depend on your stance?

I'd like to say "no" here, but that is because I am thinking from a sparring or self-defense perspective, where I pretty much keep a Boxer's stance. But, from a forms perspective, I don't like throwing a cross or rear punch from a back stance; it just doesn't feel natural, and takes way to long to arrive at the target. So, if given the choice, I like to keep a stance that doesn't cause some kind of "punch dependence."

Does your punch work independently from your stance?

I guess see above. A good base will facilitate good power in a good punch, so the two shouldn't be mutually exclusive of each other, in my opinion.

What about your pulling hand? Does your pulling hand even help at all?

The pulling hand helped me to develop good hip involvement with my hand techniques. It was great for helping me learn that early on, but now, I don't see it as a necessary part of the technique for power, because I now know how to get my hips involved without pulling that hand all the way back to the ribs.

For most people, the pulling hand is a convenient device until they can truly feel and initiate powerful motions directly from the torso.

Agreed. It can be a good teaching tool. I don't think it is a necessary one, but it can be a good one. Some of the black belt forms in the ATA don't use the pulling hand on all hand techniques, and this is good for the transition into not being dependent on it to generate power and hip movement.

Maximum power is not always the goal of every technique.

I don't know about this one. When I do forms, I max power each technique. In Combat Hapkido, GM Pellegrini usese the term "distraction technique" for the strikes and kicks that are used to facilitate the joint manipulations. I prefer to refer to the terms as "debilitating techniques" for a few reasons. One, if your justified in striking someone, then strike them as hard as you can. No sense in playing patty-cake. Two, the harder the strike, the more easily your joint manipulation will be facilitated, making everything easier on you. And if they go to sleep, well, then, they are "distracted," and you can get away or secure them.

Your thoughts?

Nice discussion, Bob!

[JusticeZero]

Maximum power is not always the goal of every technique.

I don't know about this one. When I do forms, I max power each technique.... if your justified in striking someone, then strike them as hard as you can. No sense in playing patty-cake.

I'm going to counter this one.

In some places, I have techniques where while setting up, I have limbs moving toward choice targets essentially by accident. I didn't go there to do it, but while i'm there, it seems a shame to completely ignore that little elbow snap that would do a light stinging groin slap, even though it comes out of an intermediary position as part of a more decisive attack. In the other hand, I didn't go there for the slap. It's just a cutely wrapped package laying by the side of the road on my way to the technique i'm doing. Not going to compromise the main technique to abort to a strike.

[bushido_man96]

Maximum power is not always the goal of every technique.

I don't know about this one. When I do forms, I max power each technique.... if your justified in striking someone, then strike them as hard as you can. No sense in playing patty-cake.

I'm going to counter this one.

In some places, I have techniques where while setting up, I have limbs moving toward choice targets essentially by accident. I didn't go there to do it, but while i'm there, it seems a shame to completely ignore that little elbow snap that would do a light stinging groin slap, even though it comes out of an intermediary position as part of a more decisive attack. In the other hand, I didn't go there for the slap. It's just a cutely wrapped package laying by the side of the road on my way to the technique i'm doing. Not going to compromise the main technique to abort to a strike.

I understand what you are saying here, but at the same time, these "little" techniques you are mentioning don't sound like they are planned techniques. If they were the intention, then they would probably more likley be full-powered, wouldn't they?

On the other hand, I do see the point some of the others are making in using moves and techniques to set up a singular focal technique used as the money-maker. I think this is good in competition and sparring, but not quite as useful in self-defense settings. In my Combat Hapkido applications, those "distraction" techniques are already a part of the entirety of the move set I am doing at the time, and to me, forgoing max power on a strike because I want to attempt to lock someone up, doesn't make sense to my end goals, which is self-defense/get away if I can.