Grappling in Karate

[Ueshirokarate]

Hi all, I am brand new to the forum. I have been a student of karate for almost twenty years. Of that time, I only have approximately four years of formal in dojo training. However, I have trained much on my own with what I learned and have studied a few other martial arts including judo. I consider myself somewhat of a student of the art and have grown to appreciate it and my style more and more through the years.

I believe my study of judo unlocked many aspects of the katas I know and it lead me to do some further research. I am sure I am not the only one who knows about Tegumi and its connection with karate. Has this been discussed in here? I really believe that karate today is missing half its art.

[sensei8]

Hi all, I am brand new to the forum. I have been a student of karate for almost twenty years. Of that time, I only have approximately four years of formal in dojo training. However, I have trained much on my own with what I learned and have studied a few other martial arts including judo. I consider myself somewhat of a student of the art and have grown to appreciate it and my style more and more through the years.

I believe my study of judo unlocked many aspects of the katas I know and it lead me to do some further research. I am sure I am not the only one who knows about Tegumi and its connection with karate. Has this been discussed in here? I really believe that karate today is missing half its art.

Yes, as far as I know, Tegumi has been discussed here at KF in one forum or another.

[Ueshirokarate]

Interesting, does anyone practice ground technique or throws in randori in their dojo?

[Zen Kamikaze]

Tegumi has a massive influence on karate.Some historians says that Karate is a fusion of chinese kenpo and Tegumi which was local martial art. Funakoshi who is regarded as the father of modern karate was engaged in Tegumi bouts in his youth with his friends and always recommended submission-grabbling training methods for the karateka.

[Wastelander]

We work trapping, joint locking, choking, sweeping, and throwing at my dojo. To be fair, however, my instructor also teaches Jujutsu (not BJJ) and I have Judo experience so these sorts of things may be more heavily practiced in our karate classes than it would be at another Shorinkan dojo. As a matter of fact my Sensei and I grappled for about half an hour after class the other day and had a great time of it--I submitted him with a sankaku-jime (triangle choke) in our first match and he submitted me by pulling my lapel across my chin long enough for me to give up (he was going to be able to slip it down to my neck soon and I didn't have any strength left to escape or even continue blocking his attempts, so I just tapped )

[bushido_man96]

Its interesting reading this today, as I was reading Cook's Shotokan Karate: A Precise History, and recall Funakoshi saying how Karate used strikes to "supple" up an opponent and then using a throw to further debilitate them. I would definitely like to see more throws or takedowns worked into my TKD classes.

[sensei8]

Interesting, does anyone practice ground technique or throws in randori in their dojo?

Everyday!!

[isshinryu5toforever]

Some of the Karate styles probably incorporate more throws while others may incorporate more clinching.

Isshinryu Karate seems like a clinching and striking style. There aren't a lot of take downs, but standing grappling definitely seems to be there. The main problem is that most dojo don't incorporate it.

[Dobbersky]

If you take Karate, and you work through the kata, you will be supprised at how clsoe Karate is to Jujitsu. most of the forms and combiantions can be used in stand-up and ground work just like Jujitsu techniques.

I love Bunkai and we practice a lot of Bunkai in my Dojo. we use Naihanchi, Bassai, Chil Sung Ee Ro Hyung and Niseishi Kata as well as my Jissen based kata from Ashihara Karate. nice post

looking forward to reading some excellent points of view

[JusticeZero]

The main thing I see here is that grappling seems to be associated with the cultural position of authority and community, while striking is more associated with division and weakness.

If you are the police, it is to your advantage to grapple with someone; you will tangle them up and have any number of tools to submit them without great harm into whatever situation is appropriate, the people around you will not interfere and will be glad for your presence. This is one reason why grappling is favored in MMA; there is no outward threats, no surprises, and nowhere to run.

If you are a fugitive or outlaw in your own land, you do not want to grapple. You want to deal with threats to your person decisively and rapidly, retaining your mobility and ability to act throughout in order to be able to flee to live another day. If a technique tangles you with your attacker, it is useless to you. You would be capturing yourself and delivering yourself to your attackers.

From what little I know of Karate, the original history of at least some forms of the art and many of its underpinnings of thought more resembled the latter state, not the former. This might partly explain why grappling has not previously had the attention in it as that it might have had otherwise.