Rank with no affiliation

[MasterPain]

Olympic boxing and pro boxing coexist, despite being completly different.

[sensei8]

Who really has a legitimate rank? That's the six million dollar question. Possibly not one of us OUTSIDE of our governing body!

[sensei8]

As I've always said concerning rank....PROOF IS ON THE FLOOR and not around ones waist and/or on a certificate.

[quinteros1963]

As I've always said concerning rank....PROOF IS ON THE FLOOR and not around ones waist and/or on a certificate.

The only real affiliation or rank is what you can show and prove. If you can stand under the heat of a black belt, then you are a black belt! If you can't you are not! Show me the money!

[quinteros1963]

NGBs tend to come more into play when international competition is involved. That's why the ITF and WTF formed for TKD, in the competition to become an Olympic game, there needed to be a national governing body for TKD. The WTF won out, and the rest is history. That is what the WKF is trying to accomplish for Karate. If it ever goes Olympic, the WKF is ready and waiting with established rules and regs for Olympic Karate.

A lot of people seem to think that the day Karate becomes an Olympic sport we will say good by to the Traditional Classes and it will die a death.

I think it will lift karate to new levels. Sure some schools will concentrate on the sport aspect, but you will still have your hardcore traditionalists as well.

[Dobbersky]

NGBs tend to come more into play when international competition is involved. That's why the ITF and WTF formed for TKD, in the competition to become an Olympic game, there needed to be a national governing body for TKD. The WTF won out, and the rest is history. That is what the WKF is trying to accomplish for Karate. If it ever goes Olympic, the WKF is ready and waiting with established rules and regs for Olympic Karate.

A lot of people seem to think that the day Karate becomes an Olympic sport we will say good by to the Traditional Classes and it will die a death.

I think it will lift karate to new levels. Sure some schools will concentrate on the sport aspect, but you will still have your hardcore traditionalists as well.

Agreed, but you'll never see Knockdown Karate at the olympics

Also, I wonder why Parents seem to be more interested in how many Medals or Trophies their child can get rather than will what is being taught by their child's Instructor enough to protect them from any bullies or being mugged etc.

[sensei8]

Rank with no affiliation...this sounds like its waiting for us all just over our horizon. I fear that it's more closer than that.

I say that the actions of martial arts organizations are not for the betterment of their students, but it's for the belt/rank/ego that they are more willing to wrap around their waists these days.

I say that it's not the size of any said martial arts organization and the like, but that it should be the size of their hearts.

I say that it should not be the quantity of their bank account that should matter, but it should be the quality of their instructions that should matter the most.

In the era of modern day martial arts; it's only taken less than 100 years to debauch and subvert just what our martial arts forefathers had envisioned; a betterment of totality for all martial artists.

It would appear that no matter what we say to any said organization, it'll fall on deaf ears as well as hardened hearts.

I guess that it's true; man is his worst enemy.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know if it is quite that much, Bob. I think the reason that we have so many organizations is because so many people have different ways of thinking. So they get to a point where they can do their thing their own way. The only problem is that in many cases, this can create hard feelings amongst those who depart and those who stay. It also may bring about arguments of loyalty. The true problems are caused by the egos that are bruised in the process.

[billyparker]

I have had this conversation with many people because of where I live. In my state there are many different associations for each and every martial art taught here.

What it really boils down to according to the Japanese practioners and pretty much any practitioner I have met of the Asian world is lineage. Lineage means everything to some people.

It means a lot to me and I am proud of my Lineage in Shotokan Karate Do. Association or not, who taught you, who taught them -> it can carry some weight...

For instance, Ed Parker's American Kenpo seems to be obsessed with the "Family Tree" of their education. All they talk about is that either they or their instructor was a student of Ed Parker himself. It's all about where you have come from to some people.

My personal opinion: (not that is matter's) Is that if you have a really solid and incredible understanding of the martial art you practice, and can really lay it down on the floor the way it's meant to be laid down. Sure. But if you compete, or if you get involved in teaching etc. People, especially ignorant people really want to see that piece of paper or something in writing stating you are who you are. I mean little Johnny's mom isn't going to spar you, and she's certainly not going have a clue what Bassai Dai is... And you can't stomp the Senpai into the deck each time a potential student walks in.

Sometimes a ridiculous piece of paper with a chop can give a sense of some validity. That's all though. Do what you wish. There are always organizations out there looking to back up people. I.E. https://www.mararts.org [/b]

[kansascityshuffle]

Affiliation usually doesn't mean much to me. I used to be certified under a huge well known Muay Thai association and left due to them letting somebody in as an instructor that shouldn't be. Without getting political and naming organizations very few karate organizations have no "bad seeds". I'm part of a smaller Kyokushin organization that I like because I'm in constant direct communication with a senior member and know all of the "inside politics" going on. I never had this privilege in the big organizations I have been under.

With that being said I was independent for a while myself but I kept in contact with other instructors. The only reason why I joined another organization again was to have the ability to legitimately test for "sensei" rank (sandan) in Kyokushin and because I get along great with the members in the org I'm under. I have been a nidan for just as long as some others I know that are now sandan have been training for is also why I felt the need to actually test again.

I think having a lineage that can actually be verified and traced back to "the source" of the art you're teaching is more important then being affiliated with an organization. Ugly politics happen and people splinter off starting their own orgs which starts a lot of talking behind each other's backs.