Rank with no affiliation

[sojobo]

I don’t know how it is in the States, but we have no "officially" recognised NGB (National Governing Bodies) of Karate here in the UK.

We have several that claim to be, but none are.

Reference the insurance thing. Here in the UK all we have to do is to demonstrate that we operate safely - have a first aid qualification and have a suitable certification within a group that allows you to teach the martial art in question.

Now there’s the thing, if there is no recognised NGB – who issues the certification?

This is why more and more groups (and individuals) are gaining NVQ (National Vocational Qualifications) which are generic sport coach qualifications recognised by the Government - however the sad thing about this is that you can have instructors who have the paperwork to start an MA club but don't actually know much about the MA they are teaching!!

I've seen both ends of the spectrum - great martial artists who really know their stuff - but probably had none of the qualifiers to get an insurance policy - as well as the most qualified (from and insurance point of view) instructors who haven’t a clue really about the art they are teaching.

Sojobo

Edited January 17, 2011 by sojobo

[ps1]

I don’t know how it is in the States, but we have no "officially" recognised NGB (National Governing Bodies) of Karate here in the UK.

It's very much the same in the US. I would also add the same is true world wide.

[Zen Kamikaze]

Not necessarily. But being accredited is a big thing in our society nowadays. Mechanics have to be ASE certified anymore, and you don't see the old shade tree mechanics shops much anymore. Sure, they may still know everything there is to know about a vehicle, and be able to fix it, but that certification goes toward guaranteeing the work and the person doing the work. Along with these kinds of things comes the ability to establish an insurance policy, etc. Being accredited is just good for business anymore.

I understand that if you are new to martial arts you need to see certification to begin training under a teacher but if you are training for a period and you have some basic knowledge, you can understand if a teacher worths within 10 minutes.

Cerificates, ranks and colored belts were added by easterns in order to expand popularity of their martial arts to the ''modern'' westerns.

[still kicking]

sojobo wrote:

I don’t know how it is in the States, but we have no "officially" recognised NGB (National Governing Bodies) of Karate here in the UK.

Right, there IS no official governing body, but I believe that being affialated with an organization that has a good reputation for high standards within the karate (or your martial art} world has value.

bushido_man96 wrote:

Mechanics have to be ASE certified anymore, and you don't see the old shade tree mechanics shops much anymore. Sure, they may still know everything there is to know about a vehicle, and be able to fix it, but that certification goes toward guaranteeing the work and the person doing the work.

That's what I think. Joe Blow of Joe Blow's Karate Dojo might be a great martial artist, but there's a lot to be said for having the backing of those who went before, and have spent many years building that reputation by turning out top students. IMO!

[ShoriKid]

There's a political angle to rank as well. There are plenty of good instructors who've been around for years and have the rank and backing of an organization who will look for the stripes of rank to judge you at a glance. It's something that comes up after a number of years, especially if you're traveling in some circle, both traditional and modern. You won't get the chance to show you're skill. You'll be side lined to the "kiddie" table, as it were, while the real adults talk shop.

I've run face first into it a few times where I've trained for years with credible instructors and not gone after advanced rankings during that time. I mixed with some traditionalist who wouldn't take serious what I said due to the lack of stripes. Same with more modern martial artists as well.

If you're not going to teach, or travel within certain martial circles, ranking isn't that important. If you plan to do either of those things, it begins to become important. High ideals are nice and we may hold them in our hearts, but the modern world, East or West, recognizes achievement and it's hall marks. The question becomes what ranking body do you respect and can work with along the way? Do you care about "legitimate" rank, or would putting stripes on your own belt bother you if you think you have sufficient skill to claim them? What constitutes legitimate in you're eyes and those you train with?

[Dobbersky]

I would not worry about your rank, if its what your Sensei has awarded you then that's fine. Most organisations only recognised belt grades with their own group.

I have issues with this as if you gained blackbelt in a style then you've earned that rank. Now I have blackbelts comwe from other clubs to train with me. If they just want to do some extra training to accompany their own Core style then they wear the B/Belt. If they wish to grade through the syllabus they wear a coloured belt with a thick black tab to recognise their previous Dan grade.

NGB's in the UK are although not Official are a good thing as they do have some excellent policies and support to be given as well as a good source of knowledge for Independant Instructors like me.

Sometimes with Organisations and NGB's it is a bit of "money in the right pot" etc but I'm glad the one I'm with is not like that.

The EKF will not allow its members to take part in any competitions etc with any other NGB Organisation that is not sanctioned by them. I believe they can be expelled if they do.

[Kruczek]

I ran into this question a few days ago here because of some paperwork my school had to fill out in order to let me teach classes here. I explained that I have a certificate the same as the last guy who taught. It only says that some guy said I was qualified, and that some guy said he was qualified to say I was qualified.

I didn't even get to the fact that I printed my own certificate because the ones our school had weren't very good looking (my teacher was thrilled to have new ones).

Your best bet for "official" certification is from some Karate organization in the UK. If you have a friend who does MA. He can certify you do it too lol...that is really the extent of a certificate.

[sensei8]

Imagine what the world of the martial arts would be like if the following was to happen....

The ITF/WTF didn't recognize the JKA or vise versa!!

OR...

The Kodokan didn't recognize the AJJIF or vise versa!!

OR....

Imagine what YOUR world would be like if NOT ONE organization in the martial arts world recognized you and your governing body?

OR....

Not one martial arts organization recognized Kanazawa Sensei?

To some, these mere thought(s) brings them to their literate knees. Oh how subjective/objective the martial arts world can be!!

[bushido_man96]

NGBs tend to come more into play when international competition is involved. That's why the ITF and WTF formed for TKD, in the competition to become an Olympic game, there needed to be a national governing body for TKD. The WTF won out, and the rest is history. That is what the WKF is trying to accomplish for Karate. If it ever goes Olympic, the WKF is ready and waiting with established rules and regs for Olympic Karate.

[Dobbersky]

NGBs tend to come more into play when international competition is involved. That's why the ITF and WTF formed for TKD, in the competition to become an Olympic game, there needed to be a national governing body for TKD. The WTF won out, and the rest is history. That is what the WKF is trying to accomplish for Karate. If it ever goes Olympic, the WKF is ready and waiting with established rules and regs for Olympic Karate.

A lot of people seem to think that the day Karate becomes an Olympic sport we will say good by to the Traditional Classes and it will die a death.