White, Brown, and Black!

[bushido_man96]

In karate, there were tests every tree months. It seemed like all people did was just practice what they needed for the next test. But there was no true understanding of the material. Of course, that was the fault of their instructor...but that's another issue all together.

This is the exact problem with my school, and I hate it. The instructor is always teaching to the test, and the test material is always the focus. I don't like it because it takes flexibility away from class material, and like you said, the true understanding tends to go down.

[Harlan]

I voted 'yes' because it's what I'm used to.

No belt until one day teacher says, 'You're a brown belt'.

And you stay that way until it's determined that you are ready to test for black.

Makes things real simple. It's all about the training.

[Daisho]

I liked having a group of belts to go through, just for shaking things up. The real accomplishment came on the mat.

But the Judo ranking in my school goes:

white belt

black belt

once you start entering and fighting in tournies you can wear a blue gi with a white belt.

once you win a tourny, you may wear a black belt with a blue gi.

I've learned not to wear my blue gi, unless I want to be dead set in everyone's sights to be worked over. Sometimes it's fun to wear the blue gi/blackbelt and remind people exactly why you have it

[etali]

I kind of like the belt system. In my organization the syllabus is structured around the belts, and the regular gradings mean that people get used to performing under pressure.

Sure, belt chasing happens, but who (outside of other martial artists) even knows the difference between a green belt and a purple belt?

I don't pay much attention to belts from organizations I'm not familiar with. I've noticed a lot of people give up at 1st Kyu and a lot at 1st Dan - presumably they just want to say they "Could have been a black belt if they wanted", or think that now they have their black belt they've done it all.

I guess what I'm saying is that I like belts within my organization - they structure the syllabus and help people know who to turn to (if someone who doesn't normally attend a particular class shows up one week and needs help with a kata, they ask the first available higher belt). Outside of the organization, belt doesn't mean much IMO.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

I voted "yes". Simply because in half of the arts I do we don't have a ranking system, and in the classical era of okinawan te they didn't have the 'traditional' ranking system we have so keenly adopted within our ever growing modern era.

in Iaido, Kendo and Aiki-jutsu we don't use a belt system, we still go through roku-kyu down to our dan ranking system, but we simply wear kaku obi for our iaito and shinken's. We still have testing's but we don't rely on an obi shiken system.

In Uechi and Goju we use white,yellow,green,blue, brown and black. so it's four belts between white and black. Not much, but still more than I would want. It takes away from wanting to work harder for yourself instead of the belt around your waist. I may be wrong, but please bare in mind I am simply speaking for my own opinions, nothing more.

[bushido_man96]

In Uechi and Goju we use white,yellow,green,blue, brown and black. so it's four belts between white and black. Not much, but still more than I would want. It takes away from wanting to work harder for yourself instead of the belt around your waist. I may be wrong, but please bare in mind I am simply speaking for my own opinions, nothing more.

I can see what you are saying here, and I don't disagree. But many people are goal oriented, and when there are visible, set goals they can see, and know what they need to do to achieve it (objectives), it helps with motivation. I would just mention that this is the other side of the belt systems.

[Rateh]

I think it also depends on whether or not you teach children. I personally have a different belt system for 3-4 year olds, 5-6 year olds, 7-8 year olds, and 9-100. If a 3 year old had to wait say...6 years until they were brown belt level, I think that would be incredibly demoralizing. I find a system of belts with set criteria for each level to be a highly structured and successful way of teaching the kids classes. (And no there is no 3-4 year old black belt, etc. The 7-8 year old program finishes with obtaining the 9+ yellow belt).

As a method for training adults, however, I can see how this may work, depending on the adult.

I'm just guessing here, but the majority of the people who say yes to white-brown-black probably don't agree with teaching young children. This is just a guess though, so feel free to tell me I'm completely wrong on that.

[JusticeZero]

We have eight.

Four are teaching and accomplishment belts; that means that there are four 'skill' ranks to strive for.

We don't have a "white belt". (One of the belts is white, but it is a high dan-equivalent rank achievement belt.)

We don't actually wear the 'belts'.

We only rarely have events that we earn new rank, and they're a bit of a big deal, with a week long intensive, visiting instructors and other such luminaries, guest instructors, visiting players from other groups, and the like. While we may have "testing fees" it's pretty apparent what it's paying for. Large venues and airfare and food and such aren't free.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

In Uechi and Goju we use white,yellow,green,blue, brown and black. so it's four belts between white and black. Not much, but still more than I would want. It takes away from wanting to work harder for yourself instead of the belt around your waist. I may be wrong, but please bare in mind I am simply speaking for my own opinions, nothing more.

I can see what you are saying here, and I don't disagree. But many people are goal oriented, and when there are visible, set goals they can see, and know what they need to do to achieve it (objectives), it helps with motivation. I would just mention that this is the other side of the belt systems.

That's very true and agreeable.

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So how many people here think that a 'shorter' ranking system would damage their commerce?

[DWx]

In Uechi and Goju we use white,yellow,green,blue, brown and black. so it's four belts between white and black. Not much, but still more than I would want. It takes away from wanting to work harder for yourself instead of the belt around your waist. I may be wrong, but please bare in mind I am simply speaking for my own opinions, nothing more.

I can see what you are saying here, and I don't disagree. But many people are goal oriented, and when there are visible, set goals they can see, and know what they need to do to achieve it (objectives), it helps with motivation. I would just mention that this is the other side of the belt systems.

That's very true and agreeable.

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So how many people here think that a 'shorter' ranking system would damage their commerce?

I don't think its a question of damaging commerce. Or at least I don't think that's what Brian was getting on at (correct me if I'm wrong ). Its not a about the money. You could make more more by having the shorter belts system and charging horrendous amounts for each testing if you wanted to.

Having short achievable goals can help motivate people because they can easily see what they need to achieve to pass the next mark. They know that they have 3,4,5 etc. months to sort out x, y, z techniques, kata, whatever. Longer gaps can be a bit disheartening, especially for people at the early stages but it just seems so far away. Having a testing coming up is something exciting and motivating. Maybe later on start to increase the time between each testing when students can really appreciate that they are working hard for themselves and not for the belt.