How could this have been better handled?

[JusticeZero]

Gun at close range is definitely a tactical black point, yeah. He might have had a good idea of how to use it close in, maybe as a control surface, so I can't say anything to that. Though I have a small theoretical disagreement with Lupin; hyperextension is a valid control mechanism and is in fact how a number of our throws work.

[Kuma]

It's always easy to Monday morning quarterback, but overall since he got the guy safely and came out unscathed, there's no harm in it now.

Once he realized the guy was robbing the place, his initial thought was probably that this guy had some kind of weapon. He didn't know if it was a knife, gun, or what, but a lot of robberies have some kind of weapon involved. When he's closing on the guy with his gun drawn and the robber quickly turns, there's a good chance he could be trying to deploy that weapon. I think sticking it against the guy's head was a bad choice, but so was advancing on him with his gun drawn. However, he did try to make the best of the situation and showed the guy he meant business while he tried to gain some kind of control.

Now here's the problem. You can see he's now seen the guy is unarmed, but the officer's gun is still drawn. That's where he decides to throw the guy away from him to get some distance. This was the point where he probably should have reholstered his weapon and gone hands on, but again the guy popped up and the officer closed on him with his gun still out, and then they wrestle a bit while he finally gets his gun back. He is trying to use the suspect's hood to his advantage, which works a bit, and during their fight by the metal detectors you can see him put him in a headlock. Like a lot of officers, he's more a brawler than a well-trained fighter, but that's more on our academies to blame than anything. Overall, he should have probably gotten the suspect on the floor as soon as he could, which he did try. He just doesn't have a lot of training so he just did it any way he could.

I will disagree with tallgeese (for once!) and say that I've had a lot of success with straight arm bars, but then I tend to combine mine with a leg sweep at the same time. A lot of guys also tend to lackadasically grab the arm whereas I yank it to extend it before placing the forearm at the elbow joint. This is probably one of my most used takedowns against men and women, big and small.

As for the distance, you may want that 10ft or more (21+ feet is even better), the real fact is the majority of officer involved shootings happen within 0-2 yards. You don't always get the luxury of distance.

Overall, I'd give him a B-. He got too close with his handgun and took a while to put it away and could have controlled the guy a bit better initially, but he took the fight to the suspect, was aware of what was going on, and did a good job. A B- is just a grade, a situation like that is Pass/Fail and he definitely got the Pass. Nice work to him.

[tallgeese]

Lol, Kuma! It is odd we disagree, but it's heathy from time to time.

Just out of curiosity, how many of your co-workes successfully pull off the straight arm bar? I do see it work from time to time, however, it's usually pulled off by one officer while another mobs the configuration from another angle. To me, this is a win for mass tactics and not the armbar but perhaps I;m being overly critical.

I'm in total agreement with you on the shortcomings of acadamies on this front. I think also at a department level its something that gets pushed aside as well. With the attatude of throwing more bodies at the problem a cheaper and eaiser solution than more training that involves the risk of getting people injured on duty.

It's interesting as well, to me. That we train 5 times/ year departmenatlly with our hand gun. Plus simulator time. Specialized units get about twice that.

We train hand to hand control tactics 1/ year. Regardless of assignments to units.

Last year, we shot no one. That's not every year, but it was the most recent. I can't count the number of fights we all got in. Now, I'm not downplaying or wanting less firearm time, I'm suggesting that we should bring our control tactics time up to reflect that it's a skill we need alot.

Just an observation about how seriously we, and I'd guess most, departments are about hand to hand training.

[bushido_man96]

With the gun out, making space would have been better than closing. Once he made contact, bolstering might have helped him get the guy into an armbar.

But like tallgeese mentions, once the adrenaline dumps, its not easy to get things to go like you would think they should. If he wouldn't get down during verbal commands, and he felt he could go to hands on, then holster and go. If weapons are still a concern, keep the space, give commands, and wait for backup.

[Kuma]

Lol, Kuma! It is odd we disagree, but it's heathy from time to time.

It has to happen once in a while I guess.

Just out of curiosity, how many of your co-workes successfully pull off the straight arm bar? I do see it work from time to time, however, it's usually pulled off by one officer while another mobs the configuration from another angle. To me, this is a win for mass tactics and not the armbar but perhaps I;m being overly critical.

Admittedly, not many. Like most officers, a lot of the guys and ladies on my shift can fight but not beyond what they really learned in DT. And since we never cover it once you're out of the academy (aside from the occasional refresher training due to new case law) it never really gets used too much. I have a bit of an advantage due to some dabbling in Japanese Jujutsu so it does work for me well, even by myself. Off the top of my head, I can count about 8 times I've used it in the past year successfully.

It's interesting as well, to me. That we train 5 times/ year departmenatlly with our hand gun. Plus simulator time. Specialized units get about twice that. We train hand to hand control tactics 1/ year. Regardless of assignments to units.

Wow, that's terrific. We get to qualify once a year with our duty weapon and the shotgun at the same time. If you carry off duty, you get an additional day of one year. Patrol rifle requals are every 3-4 months. Other than that, unless you're in a specialized unit, you're on your own to shoot. We're too big to get much else in.

Last year, we shot no one. That's not every year, but it was the most recent. I can't count the number of fights we all got in. Now, I'm not downplaying or wanting less firearm time, I'm suggesting that we should bring our control tactics time up to reflect that it's a skill we need alot.

I agree. Though over the past year we've had approximately 10 shootings (about 6 fatal for the suspect), we've also had 3 officers get physically beaten by suspects badly. One had to shoot and kill a robbery suspect who was on top of her beating her, one was fortunate enough to have some Good Samaritans get the guy off her before he could disarm her, and one got assaulted and beaten when he was trying to break up a bar fight. This isn't adding in the multitudes of officers who got injured in regular fights. We absolutely need better DT programs nowadays.

[bushido_man96]

Our department spends no time on Defensive Tactics as far as going hands on is concerned. My DT training partner, who recently earned a certification as a Defensive Tactics instructor through our state training center, has convinced the police department to hold mandatory quarterly DT trainin sessions for all officers. I think that is a great deal, and I hope to try to wriggle my way into some of those training sessions.