What if my Sensei doesn't know enough kata?

[Lupin1]

yes i may learn my martial art from my instructor but over time my technique has become much different than that of his own. the same thing will happen to you.

My instructor likes to quote his instructor saying that for the first twenty years of your training, your karate belongs to your instructor. After that your karate belongs to you.

[Soheir]

Me, I say you fight how you train. How alive is your sparring? Do you really hit each other hard?

Well said!

That's probably going to have more of an effect on how well you learn to defend yourself than learning Pinan 38.

I don't really know Shotokan at all, but in Kyokushin all the self defence techniques are in kata' Without underrating the importance of sparring, of course.

[evergrey]

OSU- kata for sure has it's uses! But the number of kata in Kyokushin is also limited.

[Adonis]

Choki Motobu actually knew and practiced many kata, because he learned from many different people: Ankō Itosu, Sōkon Matsumura, Sakuma Pechin, Kōsaku Matsumora, and Tokumine Pechin. According to what we know, he thought Naihanchi/Naifanchi/Tekki was the basis of Karate though.

He was also one heck of a fighter, because he fought a heck of a lot.

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Makes Sense since he studied with multiple instructors that he would learn there Kata. I read in some Karate book on diffrenent karate Masters that he only really emphasized was naihanchi kata. Any way thanks for pointing that out. Yeah I read in the book also that he was a brawler. Was he sort of a hot head from your research who liked to brawl. Or he did a lot of fighting with other karate gyms kind of like the Gracies started doing when they came to america.

[isshinryu5toforever]

From the few things I've seen on him, it sounds like he did whatever kind of fighting came along. Sometimes it would be bar brawling, other times, actual sanctioned fights. He just liked fighting.

[Adonis]

From the few things I've seen on him, it sounds like he did whatever kind of fighting came along. Sometimes it would be bar brawling, other times, actual sanctioned fights. He just liked fighting.

Thank you for the response I appreciate it. Its been a long while (years) since I focused on Martial Art History. Read some neat books that had stories and training history of different styles and there respective masters.

[ramymensa]

I've spent 5 years working on 6 katas only. And I still perform them lousy, if we compare my way to what my instructor does. You don't need 30 katas, you need a good instructor. As others said here, katas are an important aspect in your training, but you need to study the bunkai and not just dance. And, if you want to learn to fight, you need to actually fight.

[yudansha]

My sensei told me when I signed up under him that he only knows around 11 kata. Only 8 are required at our dojo for shodan.

What if I don't think 8 is enough? What if I don't think 11 is enough? How can I learn all of the Shotokan kata (I have heard there are 26-28 kata...the information varies from website to website)?

We're a small but very talented and award-winning dojo in the kata categories at our regional competitions, so I know the instructor has some potential. There are also weapons I would like to learn that he does not know. Unfortunately, he is the only Shotokan sensei in my area.

My thirst for knowledge is not to win competitions. In fact, other than sparring experience, I don't have a desire to ever attend one. I joined Shotokan for the self-defense potential.

My curiosity is of a more practical nature: to expand my knowledge base. I would like to commit these movements to my muscle memory and have a wider range of techniques to pick from in an emergency situation. I am not naive enough to believe that only 11 kata have all of the techniques you would ever need in every single emergency situation (mugging, home protection, random assault, etc).

I was thinking of buying some of Kanazawa Sensei's videos. Is this a good idea? I would see that the problem with this is that there is nobody around to evaluate you and correct your movements as necessary.

Thanks for your input, all!

It depends on the definition of "know".

My sensei says that in order for us to "know" a kata... we must be able to:

Perform that kata from start to finish, without mistake, 98% of the time.

Perform the attacker and uke portion of the prescribed bunkai for the kata. (bunkai is the practical application of every move in the kata)

Be able to improvise one's own bunkai that is different than the prescribed bunkai.

Under this definition, after 6 years of training, I only know 6 kata.

Knowing the moves, and knowing the kata, are two very different things.

I remember when I first started learning Taekyoku Shodan thinking- there are only 28 kata??? That will be easy...

I am SKIF and we have to know:

28 Kata

Kihon Kata

Sanbon Kumite

Kihon Ippon Kumite

Keashi Ippon Kumite

Jiyu Ippon Kumite

It is a full time job to stay current on the stuff I "know". If you don't use it, you lose it, and there is a LOT of curriculum.

[Fudoshin_Ryu]

I don't think there is ever really a time where you can say "one doesn't know enough kata". Those eight base kata will take you a lot more time to become proficient in them, and to bunkai them well than you think. However if you like to do kata and just want to master the pattern than by all means, learn as many as you want. I know forty-eight empty hand kata, but will I ever be able to 'master' them all? Not likely. In Uechi Ryu we have eight base kata and in Goju Ryu we have thirteen base kata, than you get into the whole topic of henka, bunkai, oyo bunkai, what type of ibuki is being used...the list goes on and on, so there is no such thing as 'not enough kata'. In my opinion at least.

[bushido_man96]

I think it will depend a lot on how the school uses kata for its curriculum, as well. In TKD, we don't do any kind of bunkai for forms at my school, or my previous one. So forms are part of the testing syllabus. In that case, more forms won't be as bad. But when you increase what you have to learn as far as applications are concerned, then fewer katas and more reps on partner work would probably be more beneficial.