Does WTF study both Taeguk and Palgwae or just Taeguk???

[kozushi]

I'm not sure if I should bother learning the Palgwae forms or not before going onto the black belt forms. I'm getting the impression that they're trying to drop the Palgwae forms, and just do the Taeguk and black belt ones.

Does modern WTF instruction require that you master one new Taeguk AND one new Palgwae form before getting your next belt, or does it only require the Taeguk patterns, and the Palgwae are a kind of remnant of the past that some places still practice for the fun of it???

[ninjanurse]

In my experience, there are still WTF schools that practice the Palgwe forms exclusively, some that practice Taeguek exclusively, and some that do both. I really think it depends upon the kwan that your style originates from and the preferences of your KJN.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I'd say it's more the preference of the kjn than the kwan that you originate from. I know a few that teach the Palgwe forms to make sure people don't get bored, because the Taeguk forms are pretty easy to pick up.

Are you trying to teach yourself the forms kozushi?

[kozushi]

Yes, I'm learning them alone.

So far I have a daily routine I drill from 2 to 5 times made up of the following:

Shotokan:

3 Taikyoku katas (plus one shuto block one I made up)

5 Heian katas

1 Bassai

1 Kwanku

1 Tekki Shodan

1 Jion

TKD:

6 TKD Taeguk poomsae

I'm not sure learning another set of elementary poomsae (the Palgwae) is a good use of daily training time, or if I'd be better off adding the black belt poomsae to my routine - balancing half and half: half pre-black belt elementary poomsae and half black belt poomsae. Otherwise it would be 16 elementary poomsae drilled over and over and only 9 black belt ones.

Please no one recommend I "join a club" or whatever. Next time I'm in Korea I will do TKD, coming into it with the poomsae already learned, and I can refine them there. I am doing the poomsae and katas so I can train at home, alone, because I have three small kids and I can't get out of the house hardly at all.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Learning on your own can be ok if you have a background already. It's been done before.

Here's the problem with what you're thinking of doing: depending on where you end up in Korea, you might not have a dojang available to you that even takes adults. A fairly large number of TKD dojan do not have adult classes, period. I had to check out several before I found one for my fiance.

Also, how long will you be in Korea? If you want to test for black belt, you have to get special permission from the Kukkiwon, or reside in the country for more than one year. You can't just go, train for a month, and test. Unless you have the endorsement of an instructor. Which, without going to a dojang, you can't get.

If you want to test under the WTF, then you just need to know the Taeguk poomse. The Palgwe are no longer used in the standard Kukkiwon tests. In fact, I could give you a breakdown of a black belt test, because they're held every Sunday and open to the public.

[kozushi]

Oh, I don't really care about a black belt test now. I wouldn't think it is fair to walk into a place and a month or two later walk out with a black belt simply because I have drilled all the moves on my own for a few years.

I'd do TKD there to enjoy it.

It's a shame there aren't many adults doing it! Yikes! I don't want to end up with a bunch of kids or whatever! There MUST be some adult classes, no? I'll be in Wonju.

Are you living in Korea right now???

I do have a background. I did a year of Wado karate as a kid and I did two months of Wado karate a few years ago in the summertime. I also have a long, 22 year background in judo and a combination of formal and informal kickboxing.

I'm learning the TKD and karate stuff because it's the only kind of martial art that I can do alone in my basement without any special equipment. It also helps my judo, kicboxing/MMA and self defence to be sure.

I was in Korea this past summer for two months. I did kendo (kumdo) there, and it was virtually ALL adults. It was quite the experience to be sure! I was proud of myself that I started out like a tool but within a month got pretty much up to their level and by the end of my stay I was one of the better fighters there - but the coach could still destroy me (and anyone else for that matter!)

If you happen to know any adult TKD paces in Wonju, please let me know.

I regret not doing TKD ever, since I've taken the time to learn Korean and I married a Korean! Kind of bad that I never wanted to learn TKD, the national sport!

Could you please break down the back belt test for me? I'd love to know what's in it, so I have the officially sanctioned set of things to work on mastering.

By the way, even though they don't test the palgwae forms, do they still learn them in Korea? As an analogy, there are plenty of judo moves that we don't test anyone for, but are still critical and commonly used ones in judo fighting and judo common knowledge.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Ok, this is going to be long haha.

Yes, I am living in Seoul right now. There are only a handful of instructors here I would deem worth going to, because the top instructors are all coaches and most of the ones that coach don't teach anyone over the age of 16. It's not that you can't learn from anyone that has a 6th dan, but would you rather learn from someone you've never heard of or someone that has coached a few former gold medalists or that judges at the Olympics?

You would only be with kids if the instructor allowed it. Some don't even take adults period.

If you're going to be in Wonju, I would say there are fewer options. I have visited there before, because it's technically my hometown. I was adopted, so I don't consider it such, but Koreans do. If you want to learn a Korean martial art, I would consider Taekkyon or Kong Gwon Yusul.

Taekkyon is an old Korean folk game that has been dubbed a martial art. It has a revisionist history that says it was used to fight the Japanese, but that's a bunch of crap. It doesn't make it any less fun though. It's a "game" in the same sense that boxing is a game. If you know anything about the history of Korean village folk games, they're pretty violent. That would be another post though.

Gong Gwon Yusul is a brand spanking new martial art (founded in 1996). It's kind of Korea's answer to MMA. The founder of the style combined Thai boxing, boxing, Hapkido, and Jujitsu to create something very interesting. They train hard and produce some decent fighters. It looks fun, but I haven't had a chance to give it a shot.

As far as the testing process at the Kukkiwon goes, as far as I know they only do black belt tests there. 1st dan and up. Poom for kids of course. The black belt test is easy, it takes a grand total of about 10 minutes. You do a few basic punches and a few basic kicks. Then, you do one of the Taeguk poomse 1-4 and then one of the Taeguk poomse 5-8. After that you break a board or two, spar for 30 seconds, and boom, you're finished. They really expect your instructor to test you beforehand. Your rank is more verified by them than actually tested. First dan isn't exactly difficult to get here, and no one would care if you got it in a few months because you'd trained before. It's not really impressive these days. If you're a 4th dan, that's when eyebrows start to get raised.

[kozushi]

It sounds to me like adult TKD is virtually a dead thing. It also sounds to me like the Palgwae are over and done with, so I can probably skip them and go onto the black belt poomses in the book. That's kind of a relief... But I might enjoy the Palgwae anyways later on...

I actually did Taekkyon in Wonju for a few weeks back in 1997-8 when I was there over the Christmas break in University. I really enjoyed it. The movements are quite fascinating and the game is unique. The training is gentle and focussed on learning and practicing the 60 or so movements, as opposed to the Korean judo etc approach of lots of conditioning exercises BEFORE you start actually doing judo!

I did lots of judo in Korea. When I lived there for a year back in 98-99. I also did it a few summers when I went back to visit later on.

Overall, and I think it's strange to say this, there is a WAY stronger martial arts culture in my city of Hamilton, Canada, than I get the impression there is in Korea anywhere. The reason I think is that people in Korea don't work 9-5, they work 9-6, and the one hour makes all the difference. People want to see their families a bit at night. I think a lot of guys work even until midnight or later, often, and most work on weekends too!

Nothing wrong with a new martial art... Newer is really 'older' because it builds on prior experience.

I don't know if I'd want to spar MMA with Koreans. The judo guys were violent enough. Now, I'm a big tough guy and all, but I got my nose broken and made crooked 3 times from head buts in Korea, and they were all in judo classes! I can't imagine sparring hard with Koreans who are actually supposed to and allowed to smash you in the face!

By the way, I'd be happy to learn TKD from anyone who is properly certified to do so, if it means staying away from kids!

[isshinryu5toforever]

Taekwondo isn't dead, but they have evolved a system for producing champions. You're tracked into it as a middle school student. If you excel at Taekwondo, you compete as a high school student. Win there, and you move up the ladder. You're constantly being thrown in competitions. Those that stay healthy and hungry for victory end up Olympic champions or fight a lot internationally.

Korea keeps with the East Asian idea of specialization. You're either smart or you're athletic. You aren't usually both. I did Kyokushin here for a while, but had to quit because of time constraints. I'm going to apply to grad schools soon, so I need to prepare. My instructor here was shocked that I went to NYU, played for the university TKD team, graduated with honors in something that wasn't TKD, and hold a high rank in Isshinryu Karate. It's something that just isn't done much in Korea. If you're a sportsman and you get a PhD, it's in sports medicine. It isn't in East Asian Studies or history.

Once you're into the martial arts culture, you can see that there are a ton of people that do it, but they're not normal citizens. It's all they do. Very few businessmen practice martial arts. They don't work 9-6, they work more like 8 or 9AM-10PM, because they're expected to go out with their colleagues after work. It's difficult to keep the work balance as a martial artist.

[kozushi]

I guess the analogy would kind of be hockey for Canada. But I'd assume hockey is more popular in Canada among all age groups than TKD is for all age groups in Korea.

Are you doing your master's degree in Korea, or are you going back to the States to do it?

Hey, don't the police and army in Korea practice TKD? They'd be 'specialists' in a sense, right?

I remember doing judo with some air force pilots and police officers...

So, my study programme will be the Taeguks and the Black Belts forms then, and next time I'm in Korea, which could be in three years or so, I'll visit some dojang, if there is an adult one, and have fun for a few months there.