No You're Not!

[BDPulver]

well in a term, beginner is just a word really. I've done MA for 30yrs and I am always learning something new in it and of myself. So technically I am still a beginner even though I have my black belt.

But then what is a black belt? is just a color of a belt? a belt to hold your pants up?

I like this conversation

[bushido_man96]

Sure I am! I don't know everything, and in that, even though I'm a senior Yudansha, I'm always learning; each and everyday!

When I train with those outside of Shindokan, I'm learning something new. As odd as this might sound, I'm always learning something new within Shindokan. Even further more, I'm always learning something new about myself.

Bottom line, while I'm a senior Yudansha, I'm only in a beginner in the wide world of the martial arts. And you know what? I'm fine with that, as a matter of fact, I'm mostly proud about that!!

Your thoughts!?

I think this is a great attitude to have towards approaching every day of training. I think it helps to keep the mind open to new ideas and information from any source. (Just need to be aware of the good sources and the bad...)

How do we define the time for which one is considered a "beginner"-weeks, months, years?

Well, as I said, I think my very general (although somewhat objective, I'll admit) basis is kyu ranks=beginner, dan ranks=beyond beginner (maybe intermediate). But again, it's all semantics.

I see what both of you are getting at here, and think both of you could present validations to your points very successfully, so I don't know that I can add much to it. I do like seeing both sides of this, though.

What I will add, is that in a journey that most of us will agree should last a lifetime, and not knowing how long our life will be, then we never even know when we are halfway there.

[bushido_man96]

There is a small percentage of things I know. There is a larger percentage of things that I know I don't know. The vast majority however falls into the category of things I don't know, that I don't know. Some people however know it all. How very fortunate for them! lol

I don't think I could have said this better myself. No, I'm know that I could not have said it better. Especially after re-reading it.

So, one thing I do know is that I don't know everything. Sometimes, my wife would wonder if I do know anything...at all...

[Lupin1]

well in a term, beginner is just a word really. I've done MA for 30yrs and I am always learning something new in it and of myself. So technically I am still a beginner even though I have my black belt.

Yeah, but people who are top of the science field are learning new things every day, but people wouldn't think to call them beginner scientists.

Ok. I caved and looked "beginner" up in the dictionary and it said "one who is just starting to learn or do something". I think I would put this under the category of just starting to learn. Everyone continues learning their entire lives, but a beginner is just *starting* to learn it. Which is why I would argue that black belt is the cutoff for beginner. Once you get your black belt, you're no long just starting to learn, you're capable enough to be full on learning.

But then what is a black belt? is just a color of a belt? a belt to hold your pants up?

That's why I said that was objective. You can have some schools where a black belt means you've been studying with them for two years and attended X number of classes where other schools you need to study for close to 10 years and be almost an expert in the martial arts before they'll give you a black belt. Usually, though, black belt is the point where you have all the basics down and are ready to start on the down and dirty details.

[BDPulver]

But then what step are we truly on Lupin1

I remember getting my shodan. My sensai told me this is just the beginning on a bigger step. Its true black belt should be viewed as the stepping stone but do you truly know the basics (kihon)??

I know our hanshi would come up with new things he found out what shimabuku might have meant. He is one of the last ones that trained with Tatsou before he died also.

I can see the interpretation of what beginner might mean especially in a dictionary but also beginner to one self is a point of view of ones aspect.

Like I said, I been studying MA for 30+yrs. I look at everything as a whole cause I know I dont know everything and always want to learn as a beginner so for me beginner does mean learning as if I'm learning it for the first time.

[JiuJitsuNation]

There is a small percentage of things I know. There is a larger percentage of things that I know I don't know. The vast majority however falls into the category of things I don't know, that I don't know. Some people however know it all. How very fortunate for them! lol

I don't think I could have said this better myself. No, I'm know that I could not have said it better. Especially after re-reading it.

So, one thing I do know is that I don't know everything. Sometimes, my wife would wonder if I do know anything...at all...

Thanks. The best way to get a visual on it is to make a pie graph and give a sliver of it to the things we know. Next give a slightly larger piece of the pie to what you know you don't know and then the rest of the pie goes to what you do not know, that you do not know. It just makes you aware of how little we know. Which in a sense makes us all beginners to the very end. I think I am just now getting a firm grasp on bjj after ten years. And there is a world of martial arts out there that I know I don't know. And I'm sure there's some I'm unaware of. It will take a very long time to master what I know, if ever. In the world of grappling there are at least four other grappling styles(that i'm aware of off the top of my head) that I could learn and probably will never have time to get to it all. The best I can ask for is to feel comfortable and confident. However I would love to master grappling as a whole. I'm just very passionate about it. Realistically I don't believe this is a practical goal. I will be spending as much time as I can learning the best information I can find and pass it on to the best of my ability. Thank you for your time and attention as this is kind of long for me. That is all.

[DWx]

Think one of my favourite quotes sums up my thoughts on this topic nicely:

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge - Benjamin Disreali

[bushido_man96]

There is a small percentage of things I know. There is a larger percentage of things that I know I don't know. The vast majority however falls into the category of things I don't know, that I don't know. Some people however know it all. How very fortunate for them! lol

I don't think I could have said this better myself. No, I'm know that I could not have said it better. Especially after re-reading it.

So, one thing I do know is that I don't know everything. Sometimes, my wife would wonder if I do know anything...at all...

Thanks. The best way to get a visual on it is to make a pie graph and give a sliver of it to the things we know. Next give a slightly larger piece of the pie to what you know you don't know and then the rest of the pie goes to what you do not know, that you do not know. It just makes you aware of how little we know. Which in a sense makes us all beginners to the very end. I think I am just now getting a firm grasp on bjj after ten years. And there is a world of martial arts out there that I know I don't know. And I'm sure there's some I'm unaware of. It will take a very long time to master what I know, if ever. In the world of grappling there are at least four other grappling styles(that i'm aware of off the top of my head) that I could learn and probably will never have time to get to it all. The best I can ask for is to feel comfortable and confident. However I would love to master grappling as a whole. I'm just very passionate about it. Realistically I don't believe this is a practical goal. I will be spending as much time as I can learning the best information I can find and pass it on to the best of my ability. Thank you for your time and attention as this is kind of long for me. That is all.

You are so very right about this. Your pie graph inference helps out with the saying you have. And if you are like me, who doesn't want to try to get the bigger piece of the pie?

[Blade96]

i always thought beginner is a white belt.

[Lupin1]

i always thought beginner is a white belt.

I think the conclusion that I, at least, have come to is that it depends on your definition of the word "beginner".