WTF or ITF, What's the differences?

[DWx]

kozushi, if you're interested in TKD history you might be interested in a book called A Killing Art by Alex Gillis. The author is an investigative journalist and the book is very well researched with lots of original photos and interviews with the original pioneers.

[kozushi]

I looked at its profile on Amazon. Thanks for referring it.

By what logic does he claim TKD was started in 1938??? I'd really like to know that one thing in particular.

[DWx]

Not so much TKD itself was started but the story of TKD starts in 1938. He refers to a poker game where Choi Hong Hi lost all his money and fled to Tokyo. He then started training in Shotokan Karate there so that he could beat the wrestler who he owed the money to.

[kozushi]

But what about Won Kuk Lee??? I thought he was the real founder.

[DWx]

But what about Won Kuk Lee??? I thought he was the real founder.

He founded the Chung Do Kwan, there were many others who also founded their own kwan and could be considered founders of the style.

If you read the book, it doesn't claim Gen. Choi was the sole founder, more examines his and other figures' contributions to popularizing TKD. In that role G. Choi certainly did contribute a lot through his political skills and his obsession with making TKD the ultimate martial art. He helped get it in the military and was the first president of the KTA through which he led the tour of the original masters.

I think the reason the book starts with that incident is because it led to Gen. Choi being introduced to martial arts and rather than darting all over the place with different characters, it follows his timeline and focuses on each figure as they become involved with him.

[kozushi]

Okay, but I read somewhere that the 10 founders were all students of Won Kuk Lee, and he was one of the very best produced by Gichin Funakoshi in Tokyo, Japan. Lee was at that dojo from the 20s until 1944, I assume. Then in Korea, he says that he taught the various future founders of the other "kwans." Lee fled back to Japan in 1950 at the start of the Korean War. One of his students joined the North and taught Lee's Shotokan Karate (aka Tang Soo Do) there.

I totally can see Choi as an important force behind moulding TKD into THE martial art of Korea, but I think he's more of an organizer, politician, popularizer, than the originator of the movements in the poomse and kibon. If we're talking technique, then would it not be Lee who is the origin of the stuff?

Did any of the 10 founders learn his Karate from someone else other than Lee???

[DWx]

Ok for starters I'm not an expert of TKD history, I just read about it from books and stuff. I'm not sure which 10 founders are you referring to? If you're talking about all the different kwan founders, I didn't think any of them did study under Won Kyuk Lee.

WRT to Gen. I don't doubt that the majority of techniques didn't originate from him. He got a lot of it from students and people such as Nam Tae Hi, who also helped him create the Chang Hon forms.

[kozushi]

So the big question is as to where the 10 founders learnt their stuff. If we can find that out, we're in business.

[DWx]

You could probably get that info from the individual kwan's websites or pages dedicated to those men's histories. For a general backgrounds of each of the founders, Wikipedia isn't a actually a bad place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwans

There's also a good explanation of the history at the Standford TKD website: http://www.stanford.edu/group/Taekwondo/cgi-bin/content/?page_id=53

Last link at the bottom of the page. Explains the backgrounds of the 5 original kwans + the 4 others.

[kozushi]

Thanks for the links. According to the Stanford one, which is a translation from a Korean book, all the founders were Shotokan guys, except one guy ALSO had learned a Chinese martial art of some kind, and one other guy ALSO taught judo.

So, it's basically a development of Shotokan.