WTF or ITF, What's the differences?

[isshinryu5toforever]

WTF gets crap for fancy kicks and certain ITF competitions are REQUIRING an aerial kick during a sparring match? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me haha.

[bushido_man96]

As far as competition goes it will actually depend on which ITF you're in, e.g. in the one I'm in there's a push towards making sparring a more technical display compared to just fighting. A number of additional rules have been introduced such as no more than 2 consecutive jabs chained together and now at internationals you must perform one aerial kick with at least one full rotation per round or you lose two points! Really not good news if you're a heavyweight like me! Because of this the sparring games are adapting

Boy, I wouldn't like that at all. I can't jump very high. Spinning I can do, but something like that just doesn't fit well into my fight strategy.

[DWx]

Yeah really really sucks if your above middle weight, we struggle to lift own legs, let alone jump, spin then kick!!!

My strategy so far has been to throw it within the first 5 seconds and then get on and spar. I guess the one good thing to come out of it is that I have had to force myself to work on something to do and hope to score with, or if not just throw and still be in control after the technique. Has given us the opportunity to work with some interesting combos and tactics though as normally minimal class time would be allocated to stuff involving this.

[isshinryu5toforever]

What are the weight classes? I fought heavyweight in university despite my short stature, because it's 165 and above. I'm about 180, but athletic, so the jump spinning kicks aren't difficult to do, I just don't see how they fit in ANYONE's sparring plan.

[DWx]

What are the weight classes? I fought heavyweight in university despite my short stature, because it's 165 and above. I'm about 180, but athletic, so the jump spinning kicks aren't difficult to do, I just don't see how they fit in ANYONE's sparring plan.

Not 100% sure on the guys cats but for ladies its:

<45, <51, <57, <63, <69, <75, >75 kg

Think the guys cats are shifted upwards by 10kg (and might have slightly bigger gaps between?) so the top category is +85 kg (187 lb). Will have to double check that though. I fight at +75kg but I'm well into that

What we've been focusing mainly on is 360 roundhouse, 360 axe and 360 reverse turning/hook kick. Its not soooo bad, would prefer not to have it but does give me some consolation to know everyone in my weight group will have to try to pull it off too so they're in just as bad a position. Only big worry is that the lighter weights that choose to fight in the heavier categories will be able to pull it off easy then have me chasing them round the ring desperate to get something in. Same problem for open weight fights.

I've had some success in training with 360 axe, usually from within punching range. If it catches apparently hurts like hell because you've got 200lb bascially slamming down on your chest/collarbone, or so my training partners tell me . My problem is not getting caught whilst going through the rotation because at that range its easy for them to crash and be all over me and being able to set it up. Really not confident to try it in comps yet. Most of the stuff we've been working on is trying to adapt them for countering so with the rotation either going backwards or to the side. My sister who also fights at the same weight has worked out how to work the 360 backkicks into her game and that can be a nice counter when she does manage to pull it off.

I really don't like it tbh, like you said, WTF gets it for being too fancy. At the moment most comps don't have it as a rule, its only really at the higher levels. And the veterans (over 40s) don't have to do it at all, probably worried about them busting their hips j/k most of the over 40s I train with do it better than me.

[bushido_man96]

I could maybe, maybe, see getting the 360 hook in there, or a back kick, as a counter. The 360 round as well, but more of a skipping counter than really coming off the ground. I can do some 360s, but like Richard pointed out, making it part of my overall strategy is not really happening. I'd be heavyweight, too.

[kozushi]

The first TKD is the ITF one, created basically in the 50s during the Korean War out of Shotokan Karate.

Then, the head guy of TKD got pushed out of Korea and he fled to Canada. From there he popularized TKD in North Korea to spite the South, which had demonized him. The South then had to change all the poomse (katas) in order to delete General Choi from its history. They didn't get all the 10 original founders of TKD together, but got 7 together. (Of course, General Choi was most definitely NOT invited.) This is when they invented the Palgwae forms, which are very much like the Karate katas, particularly the Heian ones. But a few years later they got all 9 guys together and they created the Taeguk forms, which were intended to replace the Palgwae ones. They also created the black belt forms. A strange thing is that I bought the standard WTF textbook for poomse and it includes the Palgwae forms as if nothing ever happened, and as if it's a standard part of the curriculum. So, maybe it IS still part of the curriculum.

[ninjanurse]

WTF does not require "fancy" kicks in their competitions but have recently added a extra point for spinning kicks. It is definitely all about fast feet and timing as stated. Our training-regardless of the perceived impracticality of these techniques for self defense-develops much better balanced and flexible students who are able to move quickly and explosively in response to attack. A useful training tool for self defense.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't think we'll see a big influx in the number of spinning kicks in WTF, but with the new sensors, you will see more head kicks.

Also, the Palgwe forms may be included in a book on WTF forms, but they are not the official poomse required for grading. The Taeguk poomse are the only ones you are required to know by the Kukkiwon.

[kozushi]

Actually, I did some more research and General Choi was the man responsible for collecting the martial arts masters together to create a standard national military martial art form that ended up being called Taekwondo. He was the official face for it, kind of like king James was for the King James Bible - but just like James was not a translator or did work on the book itself, so Choi was more of an overseer than a real fundamental contributor.

The first martial arts school in modern Korea was the Chung Do Kwan - a school of Shotokan Karate set up by Won Kuk Lee, who had lived most of his life in Japan, and only returned to Korea in 1944 to avoid the bombs in Japan. He had a hard time persuading the Japanese governor of Korea to let him open up the club, but after the third attempt succeeded, and he was the first Korean allowed to do such a thing.

He trained the new Korean national police after Korea gained independence after the war was done the next year. (After being cleared of conspiracy with the enemy Japanese charges!)

I think all of the 10 martial arts masters summoned by Choi were Lee's former students.

Lee escaped from South Korea to Japan in 1950 after running into some problems with the president, and the Korean War starting. In Japan he taught TKD to US soldiers. In 1976 a US general invited him to move to the USA where he continued teaching TKD until his death at the age of 95! (Another proof that karate increases longevity!) From the little I've read it seems that Lee was happy with the changes made to TKD over the years, but wanted more emphasis on the basics and less emphasis on kicking. He seems to think the sport form is something separate from but connected to the martial art form. Here is a really neat interview with him:

http://www.tangsudo.it/html/leewonkuk.html