WTF or ITF, What's the differences?

[Dobbersky]

All

I am looking at cross training, I practice, teach Full Contact Karate and someone recommended ITF, I can't find much info apart from the Wiki stuff

What are the real differences between ITF and WTF in Training, Forms, Sparring and Applcation of Forms/Self Defence techniques etc?

Thanks

Ken

[Soheir]

WTF uses more protections in sparring. I believe thay have more of those "fancy" kicks. ITF uses more hands in competitions and weapons in training.

Some people say that ITF is a little like Karate.

[DWx]

ITF is better j/k, ITF is what I practice though.

There are people on the forum far more qualified to talk about WTF so I won't even bother, but from my experience in ITF:

Probably the biggest difference from WTF and from Karate is that we do "sine wave" in our forms. Don't know if you've ever come across it but essentially we use knee spring to the point where it kinda looks like we're bobbing up and down. It is a pretty alien concept to other styles of MA and looks wrong but if taught right can be pretty effective (at least I think so) so don't let that put you off. Probably best to just watch for yourself though, Youtube has tons of videos, just search for "ITF patterns" or "ITF tul". There's 24 patterns in total to learn, one for each colour belt and 3 per dan up to 5th where its 2, and 6th where you learn the one. Also contrary to popular belief its not all about the legs in the patterns either, we do kick but only low level front kicks up to 6th gup then its just side kicks until blackbelt.

For sparring it'll depend on the school but ITF can range from no/light contact right up to full contact with the balance probably more towards the heavy contact side. Competition sparring at least is on the heavy side at nationals in the UK and internationals are definitely very close to full contact just without the legal KO's. Again Youtube is probably your friend here. We do step sparring too (1-, 2- and 3-step) with it being a grading requirement in most schools. Also don't tend to have fixed sequences to learn for step sparring, you are meant to take techniques you've learnt from the patterns and apply them. The sparring I guess is a lot like how kickboxers spar as we're pretty much equal hands and feet (well maybe a little more feet).

As for application of forms/self defence, we don't really have a concept of bunkai (although there are individuals that do try to take this approach), everything is just what it is. There isn't a lot of joint work on the whole unless the instructor specialises in it although most will teach basic locks and manipulations. The preferred approach to self defence is strike hard and strike fast to disable the opponent(s). Most schools will train defence against common weapons too such as knives, sticks, bats etc.

Breaking is a big part with the majority of schools making it a grading requirement only a few belts in. Pretty much every strike/kick you learn will be broken with and many of the blocks too.

Since 2002 it has been a little messed up though and there are now 3 groups calling themselves the ITF plus numerous splinter groups teaching "ITF style" stuff. Not a lot of variation between each and shouldn't matter so much at beginner level but there are technical differences in each group where things have been improved and movements changed slightly. Actually that is one of the things I like about the organisation itself, things are constantly updated and improved. All the time things get tweaked and adjusted to improve them and it filters down pretty well to all students so there is standardization across the board.

In the UK the politics is even worse than just the three ITFs, within each one there are numerous sub-organizations that belong to one of the ITFs instead of just having one governing body like most other countries have.

Hope this helps

btw, I know of a good ITF school in Manchester if you're interested..

[Dobbersky]

ITF is better j/k, ITF is what I practice though.

There are people on the forum far more qualified to talk about WTF so I won't even bother, but from my experience in ITF:

.............................

btw, I know of a good ITF school in Manchester if you're interested..

Let me know the Dojang in Manchester for ITF and I'll pop along

Thanks

Ken

[DWx]

Have PMed you.

BTW, I think the Olympic TKD squad have their training facility in Manchester now so could be some really good WTF training in your area too.

[bushido_man96]

My school would be one of those that DWx mentioned that "teach the ITF stuff." We do most of the ITF forms for our gradings, but only have one per belt at black belt levels, but having a few "recommended" levels of black belt at 1st and 2nd dan.

However, our sparring is more along the WTF rules, and we wear the chest protectors. However, we stick to a more traditional form of kicking, with less emphasis on the fancy stuff. We learn the fancier stuff from time to time, but don't focus on it.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I've got a lot more experience with WTF than with ITF. So, from the WTF standpoint here it goes.

The main point of focus seems to be competition sparring. Don't let the gear fool you though, it's full contact. Yes, they wear head gear, chest protectors, shin and forearm pads, and now foot gear, but they encourage hard kicking and knockouts. Some dojang concentrate on the points game, others concentrate on hitting the other person harder. Both can lead to competition wins, but one is better for self defense in my opinion. The only real criticism I have is that they don't score hand techniques at all. That isn't to say someone with good hands can't use them, but they're going to have to kick to win.

The Taeguk forms are the standard forms you need for any WTF grading. Some schools still teach the Palgwe poomse, but the Taeguk poomse are standard. They are short and easy to learn. The stances have been shortened in recent years to make them even more accessible. It's easy to see how WTF Taekwondo is becoming a martial art for everyone.

Most schools have a self-defense curriculum for gradings, but I'm not sure if it is standard across the board. I'm sure it's supposed to be, but we all know things aren't always the way they are "supposed" to be.

You do see some fancy kicks, but they really concentrate on three kicks, the round kick, the axe kick, and the back kick. There are variations on these, like doubles and triples, a fast kick, which is a skipping in round kick, etc. However, these are the staples of competition, and you will rarely see the high flying kicks the Korean Tigers have made famous. Those are reserved for demo teams. If you watch high level TKD competition they rely almost exclusively on the back kick and roundhouse kick.

[bushido_man96]

If you watch high level TKD competition they rely almost exclusively on the back kick and roundhouse kick.

Yes, and they spend a lot of time on footwork to get those kicks in. It turns into kind of a chess game. Too bad I've always sucked at chess. I need to learn to move my feet faster...

[isshinryu5toforever]

If you watch high level TKD competition they rely almost exclusively on the back kick and roundhouse kick.

Yes, and they spend a lot of time on footwork to get those kicks in. It turns into kind of a chess game. Too bad I've always sucked at chess. I need to learn to move my feet faster...

Not just footwork, but timing. I've heard, no way to substantiate it, that Korea tends to choose its competitors based on who matches up against the rest of the world the best. They have full profiles on other countries' Olympic hopefuls and tend to do their matchmaking that way rather than through selection rounds. It seems to have worked with overwhelming success so far.

You really just need to spar a lot more. You can work on your timing that way. Speed is a great thing to have, but I've seen the faster fighter lose a lot, because his timing wasn't very good.

[DWx]

You do see some fancy kicks, but they really concentrate on three kicks, the round kick, the axe kick, and the back kick. There are variations on these, like doubles and triples, a fast kick, which is a skipping in round kick, etc. However, these are the staples of competition, and you will rarely see the high flying kicks the Korean Tigers have made famous. Those are reserved for demo teams. If you watch high level TKD competition they rely almost exclusively on the back kick and roundhouse kick.

As a contrast to that ITF will mainly focus on roundhouse (we call it the turning) and side kicks and front jab punch. These are then supplemented with axe kicks, hook kicks, front kicks, reverse turning and back kicks depending on the competitor's own preference and individual style. Again fair number of variations on each.

As far as competition goes it will actually depend on which ITF you're in, e.g. in the one I'm in there's a push towards making sparring a more technical display compared to just fighting. A number of additional rules have been introduced such as no more than 2 consecutive jabs chained together and now at internationals you must perform one aerial kick with at least one full rotation per round or you lose two points! Really not good news if you're a heavyweight like me! Because of this the sparring games are adapting

I didn't mention earlier that we do have an additional discipline which I've never come across in other MAs or styles called "special technique". Although unless you want to do it in competition hardly anyone focuses on it. Basically the goal is to break one board (or move the board on special hinges) with a technique whilst jumping as high as possible. The heights people get are ridiculous and you still have to have executed a proper technique for your attempt to count.

btw if you are interested in comps, the official videos do explain it nicely and explain what ITF is all about: