Groin Strikes?!

[sensei8]

In your opinion...

When grappling, how viable are groin strikes?

[tallgeese]

Minimal, really. Good position is usually so tight that it minimizes the ability to get at the target locations. Even if you're pulling guard, a good player faced with strikes will break the posture and keep you tight.

It's easy to say, hit the groin, but really it's pretty hard to do reliably if the guy knows what he's doing. Not to mention that distances are so minimal that stirkes are often too short to attain the speed for the F=MxV formula to really help you out.

I will not say, never, but I will say that a groin shot wil rarely be the answer to out fighting someone on the ground.

[ps1]

I talk about groin shots like this:

If we were sparring hard and you realize I knowingly struck you in the groin; would you stop? No. You'd get angry and attack harder. The same goes for a real fight.

So when people tell me they'll hit me in the groin, I tell them to go ahead. Because reaching down there is usually a very bad idea. It leaves the head wide open for chokes, extends the arms for armbars, and usually sets up a triangle choke as well.

As tallgeese mentioned, while in top position, a good grappler would be too tight to get to the position.

In this fight, you'll see the guy try to get to the groin of Rorion Gracie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RawPYGzYOQ

[MasterPain]

I'm reminded of Joe Son vs. Keith Hackney. That being said, it is hard to pull off a good clean groin shot on the ground, about the best that you can usually manage is to grind your knee during a guard pass. For combative ideas for grappling, eye gouges are everywhere.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Eye gouges I put in the same category. You have now extended yourself and angered someone who probably has the upper hand as typically eye attacks are out of desperation being as they cannot be practiced effectively or extensively. By the time the person thinks to use such a technique they have already made too many mistakes and are in no position to do so. And I whole heartedly agree with ps1 about groin strikes. I have trained and competed for ten years and have never worn a cup. Getting hit in the groin significantly happens pretty regularly and people work through it.

[Iron Arahat]

In your opinion...

When grappling, how viable are groin strikes?

Totally viable...a game finisher, probably not. Can you use dirty tactics to gain advantage, most definitely.

JJN, you may have never worn a cup in competition, but rule prohibit such strikes, and by nature of the training, it is not something that is going to likely happen when to trained players are competing.

[tallgeese]

You still go back to the minimal space to throw one. I know, power can be generated in small spaces. However, good players will give you next to none.

Really, train with strikes on the ground, against a good player, and see if it's as easy as one would think. It's not.

The distraction you MIGHT get by such a tactic will most likly be offset by the disadvantage you set yourself up for by engageing in such a movement. Grapplers will often capitailze on the space one gives them by moving for a strike.

Again, I'll rarely say never, but they are of minima use in this particular situation. The best way to deal with a grappling game is to develop one yourself.

Try it. Get a friend who's a good grappler. Then, glove up and try to strike him. Yes, you might distract him, b ut you'll find you also open yourself up for much unwanted offenstive attention.

[Iron Arahat]

I will profess that it is still viable option.

I roll with 4 different jujitsu players, from three different camps, on a weekly basis. I am not jujitsu trained, we practice with strikes as well as without, but are strictly doing "groundwork". There is a big difference between striking on the ground and not, and it changes the gameplay immensely. Dirty tactics can change the game as well, distractions work to gain a better position.

Many jujistsu practitioners that come from a pure jujitsu camp, are often not well prepared for adding striking to their ground game, and are not well versed in dealing with the urgency that a barage of stikes entails.

Simply digging your chin or a fist into a persons ribs in half-guard, can create a big enough diversion to move into side control or progress to mount. So driving an elbow into the groin, or even a knee could easily disrupt a guys gameplan.

[tallgeese]

Again, maybe. But you're still shortcutting your development in the grappling arena if you rely on these.

Not to mention there are plenty of guys out there, if you're talking about fighting them on the street, that have diminished pain sensitivity, usually due to some sort of chemical intervention. Pain of grinding won't matter, but you can't deny leverage and mechanical priniciple.

In the end though, trading positional advantage for strikes that may or may not prove valuable is questionable at best. The biggest problem I see is stunting your grappling growth by relying on them vs. working for technical skill.

[JiuJitsuNation]

I will profess that it is still viable option.

I roll with 4 different jujitsu players, from three different camps, on a weekly basis. I am not jujitsu trained, we practice with strikes as well as without, but are strictly doing "groundwork". There is a big difference between striking on the ground and not, and it changes the gameplay immensely. Dirty tactics can change the game as well, distractions work to gain a better position.

Many jujistsu practitioners that come from a pure jujitsu camp, are often not well prepared for adding striking to their ground game, and are not well versed in dealing with the urgency that a barage of stikes entails.

Simply digging your chin or a fist into a persons ribs in half-guard, can create a big enough diversion to move into side control or progress to mount. So driving an elbow into the groin, or even a knee could easily disrupt a guys gameplan.

It appears (based on affirmations) to me that the jiu jitsu players you are training with are novice. As most high level players don't dabble with friends and I have only ever seen the novice get together to train on the side. Again this is just my experience. Most serious practitioners tend to stick with their team as many, many hours of hard work on the mats creates a special bond. Saying that you train with different players from different camps doesn't add credit to your point in my opinion. Also old school jiu jitsu "camps" are all about strikes and acknowledging them.

"BJJ was MMA before MMA was MMA." Master Luiz Palhares