The Summation of "WHY"!!

[sensei8]

It happens often in martial arts schools...TEST DAY!

Question to my fellow instructors....

When a student in a martial arts school fails a test, WHY?...

A) Because that student(s) didn't demonstrate any marked improvement(s)!

OR

B) Because "I" can get another testing fee or something else by not passing that student(s).

The majority of us, if not all of us, here at KF will pick #A for obvious reasons.

But, here's the problem with #B, imho. This is what a lot of parents and the like think when their "Jane" or their "Tom" fails a test. Once a parent gets #B stuck in their heads; it's almost impossible to get them to accept #A.

Is this mentality/mindset only from parents who are customers of McDojo's and the like?

OR

This mentality/mindset permeates more often than not from Non-McDojo's as well?

The summation of "WHY" can be hard for parents to accept. Parents, once decided, only want to hear that their kid(s) have passed. The summation of "WHY" speaks about making improvements, and that speaks about WORK/EFFORT. That's alien to the parent as well as their child/children.

"Why? You just want more money!"

"Why? You just don't want to promote my Billy/Lilly to, pick a color, that belt because you don't want my Billy/Lilly to get a black belt!"

"Why? You passed Gary/Shari, but you won't pass my Harry/Mary!"

No matter the reason, to that parent, the instructor is dead wrong. Just as soon as the parent wins the arguement with the instructor; the parent becomes in charge of the testing board, hence, the instructor.

It's very hard for parents/students to understand, and/or listen to the truth from their instructor?

WHY isn't CAN'T! WHY is a path to CAN! Are you large and in charge?

Or are the parents large and in charge? Not at my dojo/Hombu...EVER!!

[Jeffrey]

I agree 100%. This happens in all sports. In the eyes of most parents their children are all the best. No parents likes to see a childs failure. But the truth of it is failure is part of life. With out it we never learn.

[DWx]

I don't think this mindset is just limited McDojo parents. Although if the parent is used to paying out needlessly for various different programs, equipment and substandard teaching they have a right to be a bit suspicious when asked to pay out more for additional testing. On the odd occasion I think it has happened at my school, more often than not its with the people who think they should just pass a test for turning up and put no work into it beforehand. Some parents just don't get that their child may not be perfect and not good enough.

One solution is to not let students attend a grading unless you are certain that they will pass, although that wont cover you if they screw up on the day. Or offer the retesting for free/reduced rate. Other solution is to fail them at the test but put them on some sort of probation and award the belt at a later date.

Some parents and students just wont get it though and if you stick to your principles and standards you are unfortunately going to lose some students. But you can afford to lose students like these.

[Jeffrey]

Quote from DWx

"One solution is to not let students attend a grading unless you are certain that they will pass, "

I agree on the point of not allowing a student to attend a grading if they are not ready. We grade students through out the year based on how effort they put in every class. To quote Sensei8 "Proof is on the floor"! I can tell you who will pass before grading begins. IMHO a student has already passed to attend our grading. This is their chance to show off what they have learned.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't see why you would test a student when they're not ready unless it was to prove a point. I've seen it done before in extreme cases, like someone has a huge ego and keeps pushing for a test they're not ready for.

If they fail, why would you charge them a second time? I've never been in a school that does that. Some of the schools I have been to don't even charge for the test. That's a luxury not everyone has. I understand that, but double charging because someone failed? I don't know about that.

[bushido_man96]

I have never been in a school that charged for the testing after a failure/no change. The testing after is usually free. Now, if they fail a second time, it may not be free. But, they shouldn't fail a second time.

Parents have to understand and come to terms with these things, should they arise. If they cannot, then it is perhaps time to part ways with the student and parents. This is unfortunate, but as was mentioned earlier, parents cannot be allowed to be make the rules and decisions of the school. If that is allowed to happen, then all integrity goes out the window.

[sensei8]

Please realize that I too have never seen a double charge and the like for testing fees for when a student happens to fail; I was just playing devils advocate for the sake of the topic.

Just as well, I too, wouldn't test anyone that hadn't earned the testing invitation. Again, I was playing devils advocate for the sake of the topic.

Solid posts thus far....thanks!!

[DWx]

I don't think the double testing fee is all bad, most other types of non-MA testing you have to pay to resit if you fail. Like driving tests, GCSE/A-Levels (high school exams) etc. You are still costing people's time and/or resources to grade you. If you don't have your own facility you'll still be paying out for the hall hire, if you supply breaking materials, they still need to be paid for... Might need to charge again if you are inviting a senior grade to grade your students as you still have to pay for their expenses to travel halfway across the country to come to your school. Doesn't matter if they are all just re-taking the test, the expenses still have to be paid. And its not necessarily a bad thing for the students either. Personally if I know I have to pay out to take a test I will make sure I will ace it first time but if there is the option to retake for free its not as critical that I revise like crazy for it.

With regards to the letting a student test without being a 100% sure they will pass, I could see why that will happen too. Sometimes if the person is borderline pass or fail and you say they can test, it motivates them to get their act together and sort themselves out for the grading. Some people perform better under pressure too. And like I said before, the student may be awesome in class and have the requirements down but screw up on the day when performing under pressure.

[JiuJitsuNation]

For this reason and many others I do not have testing fees nor do I hold a formal testing. I watch my students progress on a daily basis and keep an eye on their attendance and minimum time requirements. What I would ask in testing is what I look to see out of them in class. Many people are concerned and ask up front about testing fees and or any other "hidden" fees. The only thing they are required to do is pay for their belts at cost. I paid testing fees and didn't think anything about it because I love what I do and I love and greatly respect my instructor. However many people have a different view about the "service they are paying you for" and believe they are in charge because they pay you. bleh

[KarateGeorge]

Quote from DWx

"One solution is to not let students attend a grading unless you are certain that they will pass, "

I agree on the point of not allowing a student to attend a grading if they are not ready. We grade students through out the year based on how effort they put in every class. To quote Sensei8 "Proof is on the floor"! I can tell you who will pass before grading begins. IMHO a student has already passed to attend our grading. This is their chance to show off what they have learned.

My school follows the same philosophy. Once a student is eligible for a new rank, prior to testing, we always hold a pre-test with them, where a black belt takes the student to the side during class and one-on-one goes over everything they're required to know at their rank, have them demonstrate the techniques, ask them questions, etc. In short, prior to testing them, we test them. If they're not where they should be for their rank, we won't test them and tell them we'll try again the next month. However, if they show they sufficiently know their stuff then we schedule a test time. That way their test day is really about them showing off what they've learned to the testing board and any friends and family in attendance. A student at my school should never fail a test for lack of knowledge. The only way they should fail is because they either weren't giving it their all on test day or they just give up during the test.