Isshinryu Generally Speaking

[cejames]

Hi, All:

I have studied the Isshinryu system for about 34 years. There is a good deal of misinformation on it out there. If anyone has a specific question, not a generalization, on Isshinryu just post or reply to this post and I will attempt to clear the air.

One important caveat is that it would be my personal standpoint only. Because we are all humans we all perceive and relate to things in a unique form but I hope to have an open mind allowing for "just the facts" in responding.

I have no need to become emotional or obsessive about what I know, practice, and teach. The maxim I try to live by is a quote from Tatsuo many years ago, "All bottles are good, they all serve a purpose!"

In regards to comparison of styles this is a waste of time. There are to many variables out there to truly do a comparison. In the end all styles are good, they all serve a purpose and what I try to do when asked is to let folks know that each one has its own unique personality and the best one can do is find the one or several that fit your personality; that suits you and what you wish to accomplish and go for it.

Respectfully,

Charlie

[isshinryu5toforever]

Welcome to the forum. I've been studying Isshinryu for going on 20 years now. I wasn't alive 34 years ago haha. My main question would be one about your opinion on the state of Isshinryu Karate in the United States currently. From what I've seen there is not a lot of aliveness in most dojo. What is your opinion on that?

[BDPulver]

Welcome. I've been a with isshinryu close to 30 yrs, been studying martial arts for 30+ yrs.

One of things I can tell you isshinryu5toforever is the politics in isshinryu. There are bout 3 organizations in the US off the top of my head. I'm part of the IWKA.

My teacher has hosted the World isshinryu tournament few times. He has tried and succeeded bringing the other organizations together for these. but, i have heard that there is always conflict within cause of what this person was taught to what that person was taught.

But the aliveness is there its the economy that we are all facing. some are having trouble affording classes. Last time I called my best friend who still trains cause i live in a different state he tells me who is still there and who has left.

I have had problems just trying to start a school here. Most want that black belt fast. Others want to be the next MMA star. and still others feel other forms of defense ie. gun, is much better.

Its actually got me thinking of just moving back home sometimes. but then I see the problems of the area i live in where i have been giving in to my stubbornness and to just keep trying.

Right now i'm just ramblin' away though.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I am well aware of the politics involved in Isshinryu. You guys each have a decade on me, but I've been around a little while. Politics aren't what I'm really interested in. I'm interested in aliveness. It's true that a lot of people want to be the next MMA star, especially after seeing what Lyoto Machida did in the UFC using Shotokan as his standup. Ryo Chonan did it in Pride years before using Kyokushin, and you can still see glimpses of Kyokushin in what GSP does.

I think the biggest thing that MMA has done to help the martial arts community is that people have to take a look at training methods. I've only visited 4 or 5 Isshinryu dojo in the US, but most of them didn't have a lot of aliveness in their training. Foam dipped gear, not hitting pads, statuesque one step partners. You know, they punch, then stand there with their arm out so you can finish the technique. That's fine for introducing people to concepts, but black belts shouldn't be doing it. I've got to admit, it drives me a little crazy, especially because they bill themselves as self-defense oriented first.

In honesty, I'd like to see Isshinryu organizations start putting on knockdown competitions for those that want to try out what they're learning on other people full-contact. Maybe one or two a year would be nice. That's not something in my power though, I'm a bit too young to enact that kind of change.

[sojobo]

Hello,

I am currently researching Isshin ryu Karate-do and whilst Wikipedia states that it is an Okinawan karate - it doesn't seem to have been listed on "Wonder Okinawa" which is a government run website.

http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/index.html

Can anybody answer why?

Sojobo

[BDPulver]

no idea why. never heard of that site to be honest either.

What I can tell you is only reason i can think of is Tatsou took aspects of the other arts to make isshinryu. That is only thing i can surmise.

[sojobo]

Hello,

The reason for me asking is that I have read / heard it said (from more than one source) that Isshin-ryu is a "made up style".

I struggle to grasp that tbh, as (by definition) ultimately all style are "made up" to some degree or another, but there seems to be a theme that it was effectively created for American Gi's posted in Okinawa - rather than a truly home grown ryu.

I would value your thoughts and any references to resource you have on this matter.

Sojobo

[isshinryu5toforever]

Isshinryu was "made up" out of two Okinawan styles of Karate. It isn't recognized as an old, "traditional" Okinawan style, because it was put together in the 1950s, and continued to grow until Shimabuku's death. Currently, if I'm not mistaken, please correct me if I'm wrong, Tsuyoshi Uechi is working to have the Okinawan government recognize Isshinryu as a truly Okinawan style on the same level as Shorinryu and Gojuryu.

[cejames]

Truth be told, it is more accurate to classify all the Okinawan styles as fairly new and "made up." I say this because the traditional form of Okinawan fighting was called "Ti."

Originally there were no separations, i.e. shuri, tomari, and naha-te, as those as well as the newest, i.e. Isshinryu, were "created or made up" by those respective masters no earlier than maybe very late 1800's, i.e. 1890's or later, and the early 1900's which is where Goju, Shorin, etc. were made up.

They all come from Chinese Kung Fu and were melded/morphed into the Okinawan home fighting system of "Ti" which is the Okinawan for "Te" or hand sometimes referred to as "toudi."

So, in reality all of today's fighting arts of Okinawa, i.e. karate are new and made up in the last 75 years or so. Even the so called Japanese karate, shotokan, is actually Okinawan Ti with slight changes to pacify the needs and desires and beliefs of the Japanese to help Funakoshi get a foothold in that society and teach, etc.

Most styles today fit under the heading of newly modified and created to fit into the school systems and this began around 1901, etc.

Anyway, if you find someone who actually and truly knows and practices Isshinryu you will readily see both Goju and Shorin in it but with variances that suited Tatsuo Shimabuku.

In the end, all karate must be taught and practiced as originally intended as beginners/novices BUT must be assimilated and changed to fit the individual which means, like Tatsuo was known to do, changes will come about as one progresses.

If you practice the fundamental techniques today then tomorrow when you practice it will have changed to fit you personally without losing its core attributes.

Karate was never supposed to be this do it this way every time forever type thing but an evolving and dynamic practice that will truly grow and morph into something more with each practice and each practitioner.

I digress, but hopefully conveyed something useful.

Thanks,

[kamahlthedruid]

These are interesting videos of isshinryu.