Dangerous Techniques and Children

[Excoastie]

I agree with most everyone else. I don't think there is a "set in stone" age for these techniques. Perhaps a general guideline age requirement would work, but then again perhaps not.

I believe that as part of any training, there is a discussion that goes along with it. What is appropriate for a given situation. That being said, I feel that regardless of the age, a child should learn what ever techniques are required for their skill level/ rank. If lil Joey decides to pick a fight with one of your students, then you're student should know what steps he must use to try and avoid the fight, if that doesn't work, then your student should know what level of force is acceptable to defend himself.

I had an instructor tell me once that once you've reached the rank of around green belt (though it does vary a little with different students) you've achieved a skill level in martial arts where it is possible for you to truly hurt someone quite badly. He said that if you ever find yourself in a fight, you must be able to instantly ask yourself two questions, and be able to answer "yes" to both. If you can't, then you've gone too far, and could end up paying the consequences for your actions, regardless of who started the fight.

"Am I legally right?"

"Am I morally right?"

If lil Joey comes up and tries to punch lil Billy in the face, but lil Billy blocks the punch, and instead punches lil Joey in the stomach, but then walks away, then lil Billy did the right thing.

Now if lil Joey comes up and tries to punch lil Billy in the face, but lil Billy blocks the punch, then punches lil Joey in the nose (breaking said nose) then kicks in the side of head to knock him down. Then once il Joey is down on the ground lil Billy proceed to punch and pound on lil Joey until someone pulls him off. Lil Billy started off correctly, but he went too far, and will most likely have consequences to face.

I myself would most likely have "blocked and countered" then tried to walk away. If that didn't work, then I'd have "reevaluate" and see how things went.

just my opinion

Exco

[bushido_man96]

Those are some good thoughts. Perhaps teaching kids a use-of-force continuum should be something to consider.

Scratch that....use-of-force continuum would be good to teach ALL Martial Arts students. All too often I hear the arguement of "being tried by 12 as opposed to carried by 6." There is some good insight from that statement, but, it doesn't mean that we as Martial Artists should throw reason to the wind, and just go with the standard "he started it, so I finished it" clause.

[JiuJitsuNation]

I LOVE he started, I finished it. However, I agree. In my experience though there is much psychology to be learned here. Someone who just hears whats being said and doesn't have a DEEP understanding will simply hesitate or freeze. I see it all the time especially with children. Kids who CAN and should defend themselves just won't due to the fact they have been conditioned not to. Most people aren't sensitive enough to whats happening around them or to them to make such fine line decisions.

[Rateh]

Perhaps what I need is some drills that really...drill...home what levels of force are appropriate in what situations. Kids, and well most people, tend to understand more by doing than by just listening I think.

Also regularly practicing such drills would make them better able to react appropriately with force if they DO need to use it.

[ninjanurse]

Those are some good thoughts. Perhaps teaching kids a use-of-force continuum should be something to consider.

Scratch that....use-of-force continuum would be good to teach ALL Martial Arts students.

Agreed here. We teach the same curriculum to all ages over 9 (which includes serious self-defense). When teaching 8 and under we skip the techniques but not the concepts.

[sensei8]

If we're not to teach children "dangerious and the like" techniques, by whomever's definition that might be, then we shouldn't teach anything within the martial arts to anybody, kids and/or adults.

After all, we're not teachers of ballet!

[bushido_man96]

Perhaps what I need is some drills that really...drill...home what levels of force are appropriate in what situations. Kids, and well most people, tend to understand more by doing than by just listening I think.

Also regularly practicing such drills would make them better able to react appropriately with force if they DO need to use it.

Scenario-based training would be a great way to send the message home. Why not give it a shot? Do some bullying scenarios, where some good padding, and really let them tune off and see how things do and don't work.

If we're not to teach children "dangerious and the like" techniques, by whomever's definition that might be, then we shouldn't teach anything within the martial arts to anybody, kids and/or adults.

After all, we're not teachers of ballet!

Agreed, Bob!

[pegasi]

I think the primary concern is teaching the decision making skills to determine the appropriate level of force to use to deter an attacker, and at what point do you cross the line from seriously violent force such as breaking a limb, to the possibility of taking a life?

[Groinstrike]

I believe that until you have shown the responsibility to use appropriate techniques for the situation, you should not be taught any techniques, let alone ones that could cause serious harm.

[bushido_man96]

I think the primary concern is teaching the decision making skills to determine the appropriate level of force to use to deter an attacker, and at what point do you cross the line from seriously violent force such as breaking a limb, to the possibility of taking a life?

That's why a use-of-force continuum is so important a factor to teach all Martial Artists.

believe that until you have shown the responsibility to use appropriate techniques for the situation, you should not be taught any techniques, let alone ones that could cause serious harm.

I agree here. But, even learning to punch can lead to causing serious harm. I think one of the most important things to teach and that is hopefully instilled in most students before they get to class, is a concept of self-control.