Junior Black Belt?

[Excoastie]

I know that this is a pretty hot topic at my school, and I'm sure that it's been discussed here before, but the closest thing I could find was several years old, and dealt with toddlers and other extremely young children supposedly earning a black belt. That is not what I'm talking about here.

My question is should a 10 or 12 year old child be able to earn the same black belt that I earn at 38? Or should it be a conditional black belt until they reach a certain age, at which point they would again test to receive a senior (due to lack of a better word) black belt. I don't know what that age should be, that is an entirely different debate.

I would agree that a 10 or 12 year old could probably (and many do) demonstrate the physical abilities required of a black belt. By this I mean that they're able to demonstrate each technique that is required, demonstrate each of their forms, make the required breaks, etc. I don't believe that most children of that age are emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibilities that goes with earning a black belt.

What do you think?

Exco

[bushido_man96]

And what are the emotional responsibilities that come with being a black belt?????? Lots of people mention this, but never elaborate, so I am interested in what others have to say.

I've personally come to the point that I don't agree with the term "junior" black belt. A style should either have an age requirement for black belt or not, and stick with it.

[StrangeBacon]

Pretty sure theres another thread discussing this somewhere, i remember it being a few months ago, the term junior black belts being thrown around.

As for elaborating on the "emotional responsibilities" i personally dont beleive a black belt symbolises just expertise in a martial art, but rather a certain maturity that a child cannot obtain.

I think it should come with life experience, afterall, martial arts is a long arduous journey, whats the point of rushing it for the sake of a belt?

[bushido_man96]

Pretty sure theres another thread discussing this somewhere, i remember it being a few months ago, the term junior black belts being thrown around.

As for elaborating on the "emotional responsibilities" i personally dont beleive a black belt symbolises just expertise in a martial art, but rather a certain maturity that a child cannot obtain.

I think it should come with life experience, afterall, martial arts is a long arduous journey, whats the point of rushing it for the sake of a belt?

Well, that's a start. Can you elaborate? There are plenty of adults out there that don't have a very high maturity level, too.

[ps1]

I've personally come to the point that I don't agree with the term "junior" black belt. A style should either have an age requirement for black belt or not, and stick with it.

I agree. In a previous style I studied, a child could earn a black belt, demonstrating all the same techniques as an adult. Then they were called a Junior black belt. If the requirements are the same, the rank should be the same. Afterall, we don't call them junior green belts or junior blue belts. Just black belts are labeled in this way.

Either they are a black belt or they are not. Don't give them some superfluous title just to keep milking money out of them until they turn 16, get their own car and stop coming.

[DWx]

I've personally come to the point that I don't agree with the term "junior" black belt. A style should either have an age requirement for black belt or not, and stick with it.

I agree. In a previous style I studied, a child could earn a black belt, demonstrating all the same techniques as an adult. Then they were called a Junior black belt. If the requirements are the same, the rank should be the same. Afterall, we don't call them junior green belts or junior blue belts. Just black belts are labeled in this way.

Either they are a black belt or they are not. Don't give them some superfluous title just to keep milking money out of them until they turn 16, get their own car and stop coming.

Very well said, my thoughts on this exactly. The only exception I would give for the term was if the candidate had taken an exam with reduced requirements but even then I would want a decent reason as to why they weren't allowed to take the full test.

Its just another belt anyway, you don't need "emotional maturity" to get your brown belt so why suddenly impose this requirement at blackbelt? Besides you can get some pretty mature under 18s or under 16s or whatever your junior age is.

[Montana]

And what are the emotional responsibilities that come with being a black belt?????? Lots of people mention this, but never elaborate, so I am interested in what others have to say.

I've personally come to the point that I don't agree with the term "junior" black belt. A style should either have an age requirement for black belt or not, and stick with it.

AGREED! To me, a black belt symbolizes the skill level of the person wearing it, and that person should be able to handle themselves against the majority of people they should encounter on the street This includes ADULTS! Under that definition (MY definition), a 6-15 year old kid wouldn't qualify except under an extremely rare circumstance.

[DWx]

I had a nice little experience with a 14 year old blackbelt tonight at training that goes some way to showing that kids can be good blackbelts. I'm 5' 9, 210 lb-ish, used to heavy contact and can take a hit. Was sparring this kid who barely reaches my shoulder level and must only weigh 6 stone. He's entering a tournament this weekend so I was told to put the pressure on him and up the contact a little. Basically sparring him like an adult and not letting up on the attack/counter attack. For starters he was taking what I was throwing at him and it wasn't light... I know some adults that wouldn't put up with what he was soaking up. And he was giving as good as he got, this 14 year old landed the sweetest side kick right in my stomach and knocked the wind right out of me. Hurt like hell and had me bent double. So goes to show that some kids can handle themselves under adults if need be.

Besides if you're going to exclude kids from having a blackbelt based on size or because they can't handle the 6ft 250lb attacker, you're going to have to exclude a lot of smaller women and men too. Not to mention in that case maybe we should have an upper age limit on a blackbelt if we're going to have a lower one based on those reasons... start getting arthritis, a dodgy hip, whatever and your ability to defend yourself against an adult starts to go down.

[Montana]

As I said in my first post, there are always exceptions. My personal definition of the requirements for black belt are that they should be able to handle themselves against the majority (not all) of people they meet on the street. This excludes trained fighters, such as boxers and other martial artists.

However, IMHO, a black belt should be able to hold their own against trained fighters as well. Not necessarily expected to defeat them all, but at least hold their own. Having a black belt does not mean you are the biggest, baddest person on the street by any means. It means (to me) that I have a certain amount of training to defend myself against the average person I would confront on the street. Obviously, a well trained boxer/MMA fighter is NOT your average person on the street.

I'm 6'6" tall and weigh 245 lbs. I hold a 4th Dan in Shorin Ryu and have been in the arts since January of 1975. I feel comfortable that against your average, to above average, person on the street that I would be successful in a street confrontation I don't feel I'd fair well in the octagon or such because I train for self-defense, not 3-5 rounds against a professional fighter. My goals in the arts are not anywhere aimed at competition.

[ninjanurse]

Afterall, we don't call them junior green belts or junior blue belts. Just black belts are labeled in this way.

Actually, in my system, we do consider them junior green belt, etc. When lining up all those under 16 stand to the left of those over sixteen. This division of the age groups are based on various qualities of maturity.

Edited September 26, 2010 by ninjanurse