Full contact?

[Soheir]

So, kumite = distance, timing, reaction

kata = conditioning

Is this right? Did I miss any (self defense) benefits that come from either?

Katas (in kyokushin) have all the techniques of kyokushin style. Through the practice of kata, the traditional techniques used for fighting are learned.

[evergrey]

Both can aid in self defense. Kata, with muscle memory and training your body to flow from one move to the next. Kumite, because it is as close to a street fight as you are sanely going to get in the dojo or a tournament, and all the talking about it in the world is not going to give you experience like stepping out on the mat.

[brickshooter]

IMO, we're all wired and built differently. So we're going to get a little more or less from each. For me -

Kihon = technique

Kata = balance

Ipon-kumite = timing

Kumite = timing & footwork

Heavy bags = power

Makiwara = power

[Snake1725681530]

I'm new here but definitely not new to martial arts. I just turned 28 and I started when I was 13ish. Unfortunately, I fell out of love with my Goju dojo and I left for a few years. I dabbled in a few other styles of Karate that never really set with me.

I've done a good share of sparring and in the latter years of my Goju days (I was a brown belt) I was doing some heavy contact sparring. As I look back now, I realize that since I was never really taught the body dynamics of making power I never knew how to make power. No matter how many times I would spar. I was focusing on the wrong thing. Technique and "good karate" won't come from endless sparring matches. Speed, conditioning and a faster reaction time come from sparring matches.

Now I train in a very traditional style of Shorin Ryu. More roundness to your limbs, more connectedness throughout your body equals more power. Not constant sparring. Training your body to know the motions in your kata as second nature need to be the focus, not sizing yourself up to someone else.

I've been training with my Shorin Ryu instructor for three years now and I've learned more from kata, kumite and some light sparring then I ever did from a class that gave me 80% sparring and 20% kata. Kata hold everything that a martial art has. If you ignore that and want to skip to the "good part" aka sparring, then you are completely missing the point.

Not trying to bash anyone's thinking here. Just offering my own perspective from a traditional and non competition point of view.

Bruce Lee said it himself, "At the beginning competition is healthy, but in the end it only breeds contempt and resentment."

EDIT: I also want to add, that the goal of kumite and sparring isn't to injure anyone. It's to use the full force and -not- injure the person. Anyone can throw everything they have into a punch, but it's the martial artist who can control that punch until the moment of impact. It takes years of skill to execute a perfect technique or strike with all your power and stop it before it hits. That's what sparring (to me) is really about. Learning control. If you can learn to control your hit to not hurt, then when you need to you can certainly go all the way.

Osu phoenixzion. I'm very much in agreement with what you wrote regarding Kata. For the longest time, I looked down on Kata (not having studied karate) and always saw sparring as something much more beneficial. Having recently picked up Kyokushin, I have to say that Kata is the essence of Karate. It's not only fantastic for learning techniques but also for hardening the spirit and I find myself practicing the few I know for hours on my resting days from training. This, for me, is unusual, as I'm training 5 days a week

To the OP. I haven't done full contact sparring yet- but did lots of semi contact in my Muay Thai days. I will though (as is inevitable with Kyokushin) and I look forward to it because I seek to push my body to it's limits and go beyond- One of the reasons I love Kyokushin

So you went from Muay Thai to Kyokushin?

Whick kind of kicking do you prefer? (MT shin kicks vs Kyokushin chambered, instep kicks). Which one do you feel is more applicable for combat?

Hi. Yes I did go from Muay Thai to Kyokushin.

I have to admit, I'm not a huge fan of the kicks in karate which require you to make a 'flicking' action from the knee, but personally, but my Hanshi allows me to throw shin kicks and encourages everyone else to do so. Whilst you're able to attack with greater power through shin kicks with less risk of hurting yourself, Instep kicks serve their own purpose, as they allow you to attack from a slightly further distance.

If you're asking me if I feel Kyokushin is more combat applicable than Muay Thai (or vice versa), to be honest, I couldn't answer that. Not because I'm trying to be polite, but rather because they both share many similarities in the techniques they offer and in that they require a similar level of discipline, focus and conditioning from their fighters (all of which contribute towards combat effectiveness).

[Dobbersky]

I'm new here but definitely not new to martial arts. I just turned 28 and I started when I was 13ish. Unfortunately, I fell out of love with my Goju dojo and I left for a few years. I dabbled in a few other styles of Karate that never really set with me.

I've done a good share of sparring and in the latter years of my Goju days (I was a brown belt) I was doing some heavy contact sparring. As I look back now, I realize that since I was never really taught the body dynamics of making power I never knew how to make power. No matter how many times I would spar. I was focusing on the wrong thing. Technique and "good karate" won't come from endless sparring matches. Speed, conditioning and a faster reaction time come from sparring matches.

Now I train in a very traditional style of Shorin Ryu. More roundness to your limbs, more connectedness throughout your body equals more power. Not constant sparring. Training your body to know the motions in your kata as second nature need to be the focus, not sizing yourself up to someone else.

I've been training with my Shorin Ryu instructor for three years now and I've learned more from kata, kumite and some light sparring then I ever did from a class that gave me 80% sparring and 20% kata. Kata hold everything that a martial art has. If you ignore that and want to skip to the "good part" aka sparring, then you are completely missing the point.

Not trying to bash anyone's thinking here. Just offering my own perspective from a traditional and non competition point of view.

Bruce Lee said it himself, "At the beginning competition is healthy, but in the end it only breeds contempt and resentment."

EDIT: I also want to add, that the goal of kumite and sparring isn't to injure anyone. It's to use the full force and -not- injure the person. Anyone can throw everything they have into a punch, but it's the martial artist who can control that punch until the moment of impact. It takes years of skill to execute a perfect technique or strike with all your power and stop it before it hits. That's what sparring (to me) is really about. Learning control. If you can learn to control your hit to not hurt, then when you need to you can certainly go all the way.

Osu phoenixzion. I'm very much in agreement with what you wrote regarding Kata. For the longest time, I looked down on Kata (not having studied karate) and always saw sparring as something much more beneficial. Having recently picked up Kyokushin, I have to say that Kata is the essence of Karate. It's not only fantastic for learning techniques but also for hardening the spirit and I find myself practicing the few I know for hours on my resting days from training. This, for me, is unusual, as I'm training 5 days a week

To the OP. I haven't done full contact sparring yet- but did lots of semi contact in my Muay Thai days. I will though (as is inevitable with Kyokushin) and I look forward to it because I seek to push my body to it's limits and go beyond- One of the reasons I love Kyokushin

So you went from Muay Thai to Kyokushin?

Whick kind of kicking do you prefer? (MT shin kicks vs Kyokushin chambered, instep kicks). Which one do you feel is more applicable for combat?

Not too sure who your Kyokushin Sensei is but the "in-step" is only used on the head. In Kyokushin, Ashihara and Enshin karate, the shin is the preferred striking point of the legs. I only teach kicks using the shin for round kicks. It also states this in Human Weapon and in Fight Quest which specified Kyokushin Karate.

The good thing about Karate. Based kicks are that ALL kicks start the same way with the knee chambered first so for example from the chambered knee to the front, front kick, side kick or round kick could be applied.

OSU!!!

[RW]

I'm new here but definitely not new to martial arts. I just turned 28 and I started when I was 13ish. Unfortunately, I fell out of love with my Goju dojo and I left for a few years. I dabbled in a few other styles of Karate that never really set with me.

I've done a good share of sparring and in the latter years of my Goju days (I was a brown belt) I was doing some heavy contact sparring. As I look back now, I realize that since I was never really taught the body dynamics of making power I never knew how to make power. No matter how many times I would spar. I was focusing on the wrong thing. Technique and "good karate" won't come from endless sparring matches. Speed, conditioning and a faster reaction time come from sparring matches.

Now I train in a very traditional style of Shorin Ryu. More roundness to your limbs, more connectedness throughout your body equals more power. Not constant sparring. Training your body to know the motions in your kata as second nature need to be the focus, not sizing yourself up to someone else.

I've been training with my Shorin Ryu instructor for three years now and I've learned more from kata, kumite and some light sparring then I ever did from a class that gave me 80% sparring and 20% kata. Kata hold everything that a martial art has. If you ignore that and want to skip to the "good part" aka sparring, then you are completely missing the point.

Not trying to bash anyone's thinking here. Just offering my own perspective from a traditional and non competition point of view.

Bruce Lee said it himself, "At the beginning competition is healthy, but in the end it only breeds contempt and resentment."

EDIT: I also want to add, that the goal of kumite and sparring isn't to injure anyone. It's to use the full force and -not- injure the person. Anyone can throw everything they have into a punch, but it's the martial artist who can control that punch until the moment of impact. It takes years of skill to execute a perfect technique or strike with all your power and stop it before it hits. That's what sparring (to me) is really about. Learning control. If you can learn to control your hit to not hurt, then when you need to you can certainly go all the way.

Osu phoenixzion. I'm very much in agreement with what you wrote regarding Kata. For the longest time, I looked down on Kata (not having studied karate) and always saw sparring as something much more beneficial. Having recently picked up Kyokushin, I have to say that Kata is the essence of Karate. It's not only fantastic for learning techniques but also for hardening the spirit and I find myself practicing the few I know for hours on my resting days from training. This, for me, is unusual, as I'm training 5 days a week

To the OP. I haven't done full contact sparring yet- but did lots of semi contact in my Muay Thai days. I will though (as is inevitable with Kyokushin) and I look forward to it because I seek to push my body to it's limits and go beyond- One of the reasons I love Kyokushin

So you went from Muay Thai to Kyokushin?

Whick kind of kicking do you prefer? (MT shin kicks vs Kyokushin chambered, instep kicks). Which one do you feel is more applicable for combat?

Hi. Yes I did go from Muay Thai to Kyokushin.

I have to admit, I'm not a huge fan of the kicks in karate which require you to make a 'flicking' action from the knee, but personally, but my Hanshi allows me to throw shin kicks and encourages everyone else to do so. Whilst you're able to attack with greater power through shin kicks with less risk of hurting yourself, Instep kicks serve their own purpose, as they allow you to attack from a slightly further distance.

If you're asking me if I feel Kyokushin is more combat applicable than Muay Thai (or vice versa), to be honest, I couldn't answer that. Not because I'm trying to be polite, but rather because they both share many similarities in the techniques they offer and in that they require a similar level of discipline, focus and conditioning from their fighters (all of which contribute towards combat effectiveness).

I found your response very informative. Thanks!

[RW]

I'm new here but definitely not new to martial arts. I just turned 28 and I started when I was 13ish. Unfortunately, I fell out of love with my Goju dojo and I left for a few years. I dabbled in a few other styles of Karate that never really set with me.

I've done a good share of sparring and in the latter years of my Goju days (I was a brown belt) I was doing some heavy contact sparring. As I look back now, I realize that since I was never really taught the body dynamics of making power I never knew how to make power. No matter how many times I would spar. I was focusing on the wrong thing. Technique and "good karate" won't come from endless sparring matches. Speed, conditioning and a faster reaction time come from sparring matches.

Now I train in a very traditional style of Shorin Ryu. More roundness to your limbs, more connectedness throughout your body equals more power. Not constant sparring. Training your body to know the motions in your kata as second nature need to be the focus, not sizing yourself up to someone else.

I've been training with my Shorin Ryu instructor for three years now and I've learned more from kata, kumite and some light sparring then I ever did from a class that gave me 80% sparring and 20% kata. Kata hold everything that a martial art has. If you ignore that and want to skip to the "good part" aka sparring, then you are completely missing the point.

Not trying to bash anyone's thinking here. Just offering my own perspective from a traditional and non competition point of view.

Bruce Lee said it himself, "At the beginning competition is healthy, but in the end it only breeds contempt and resentment."

EDIT: I also want to add, that the goal of kumite and sparring isn't to injure anyone. It's to use the full force and -not- injure the person. Anyone can throw everything they have into a punch, but it's the martial artist who can control that punch until the moment of impact. It takes years of skill to execute a perfect technique or strike with all your power and stop it before it hits. That's what sparring (to me) is really about. Learning control. If you can learn to control your hit to not hurt, then when you need to you can certainly go all the way.

Osu phoenixzion. I'm very much in agreement with what you wrote regarding Kata. For the longest time, I looked down on Kata (not having studied karate) and always saw sparring as something much more beneficial. Having recently picked up Kyokushin, I have to say that Kata is the essence of Karate. It's not only fantastic for learning techniques but also for hardening the spirit and I find myself practicing the few I know for hours on my resting days from training. This, for me, is unusual, as I'm training 5 days a week

To the OP. I haven't done full contact sparring yet- but did lots of semi contact in my Muay Thai days. I will though (as is inevitable with Kyokushin) and I look forward to it because I seek to push my body to it's limits and go beyond- One of the reasons I love Kyokushin

So you went from Muay Thai to Kyokushin?

Whick kind of kicking do you prefer? (MT shin kicks vs Kyokushin chambered, instep kicks). Which one do you feel is more applicable for combat?

Not too sure who your Kyokushin Sensei is but the "in-step" is only used on the head. In Kyokushin, Ashihara and Enshin karate, the shin is the preferred striking point of the legs. I only teach kicks using the shin for round kicks. It also states this in Human Weapon and in Fight Quest which specified Kyokushin Karate.

The good thing about Karate. Based kicks are that ALL kicks start the same way with the knee chambered first so for example from the chambered knee to the front, front kick, side kick or round kick could be applied.

OSU!!!

That reminds me of an interview with Joe Lewis. He loved using side kicks, because "once your knee is up, you can pull a side kick, hook kick, roudhouse kick, and the opponent literally has this much space (he uses hsi hands to show the space between his knee and his foot) to react".

[FortuneCookie]

Our sparring is mainly about technique instead of power. That doesn´t mean we aren´t allowed to punch/kick as hard as we want. With one of my teachers we could hit everywhere we wanted, we weren't allowed to appologize if we hit each other in the nuts, since it is your own fault you got hit (one great lesson). However we never hit in the face out of principe. I don't know about you but I value my brain and do think hitting in the face in ordinary sparring (not talking about tournaments/real fights) is unnecessary. I understand where you are coming from, fighting full power is way more fun, however it will get less funny on long therm if you include face punching in those fights.

[bushido_man96]

Our sparring is mainly about technique instead of power. That doesn´t mean we aren´t allowed to punch/kick as hard as we want. With one of my teachers we could hit everywhere we wanted, we weren't allowed to appologize if we hit each other in the nuts, since it is your own fault you got hit (one great lesson). However we never hit in the face out of principe. I don't know about you but I value my brain and do think hitting in the face in ordinary sparring (not talking about tournaments/real fights) is unnecessary. I understand where you are coming from, fighting full power is way more fun, however it will get less funny on long therm if you include face punching in those fights.

The thing of it is, however, if you don't ever experience that kind of contact in some way, shape, or form, then when it comes time to fight, you won't be used to hands coming at your face. This is one downfall of TKD sparring in my organization.

[FortuneCookie]

Our sparring is mainly about technique instead of power. That doesn´t mean we aren´t allowed to punch/kick as hard as we want. With one of my teachers we could hit everywhere we wanted, we weren't allowed to appologize if we hit each other in the nuts, since it is your own fault you got hit (one great lesson). However we never hit in the face out of principe. I don't know about you but I value my brain and do think hitting in the face in ordinary sparring (not talking about tournaments/real fights) is unnecessary. I understand where you are coming from, fighting full power is way more fun, however it will get less funny on long therm if you include face punching in those fights.

The thing of it is, however, if you don't ever experience that kind of contact in some way, shape, or form, then when it comes time to fight, you won't be used to hands coming at your face. This is one downfall of TKD sparring in my organization.

Ofcourse! I am absolutly pro- full contact sparring, just no hits on the face or only soft ones.