Point of the BJJ guard game

[ps1]

Seems to me deep half guard and it's many variations is not an area every school delves in. There are so many options between half, butterfly and x guard and they flow seamlessly together. Often the cons with one are answered with a simple transition to one of the others. All of which flow nicely into spider/open/de la hiva which flow back to closed and then in reverse. The guard is one of the most interesting and forever evolving pieces in BJJ. I love the endless amount of play and learning one can get from this area of grappling.

I agree with you here. In general, we focus on transitions between half, butterfly, x, and de la riva. I'm just starting to play with spider guard. I actually like it more than I thought I would. But I think my understanding of guards like de la riva and x are what leads to my comfortability in playing with spider.

[tallgeese]

Comfort in whatever guard game you happen to have come upon first is a big bonus for moving into other ones and being confident in transitions. I know when I first cam eout of mma, closed guard was about all I was comfotable with.

Once I moved beyond that into butterfly, I was able to more comfortably move into others. This is where the game exploded for me. Once I opened up, the sky was the limit on moving thru new positions. That confidence made learning new positions, I think spider was what I landed in next, much easier and enjoyable.

The big thing, Shori, is to relax and actaully work those new positions during free roll time. Don't worry about doing as well with it as the closed guard you're comfortable with. Get smashed a bit, passed, it's okay. Figuring out how to use those new tools is far more valuable than "winning" with the same thing you've been doing for years again.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Figuring out how to use those new tools is far more valuable than "winning" with the same thing you've been doing for years again.

Yes sir!!

[bushido_man96]

Wow, although following what you guys are saying is a bit tough for me, I do find the discussion quite interesting at to how you guys view these. It also appears that you evolve quite a bit as you gain experience.

This is very much the case.

As a white belt (0 to 2 years of training), the guard is usually used simply to keep a person from getting around you. They fight hard to keep the feet locked and rarely attack efficiently from the position.

Blue belts (1 to 3 years of training) usually do a better job of attacking from the closed guard, but get lost once the guard is open and lose focus. They tend to see different guards as separate.

Purple belts (3 to 6 years of training) begin to start seeing the bigger picture. They realize that they can open up, get the grip they need and go back to guard. This understanding causes them to become much more efficient at attacking from the position.

Brown Belts (6 to 10 years of training) start to apply the bigger picture. The various guard positions flow into one another, setting up techniques and applying defenses with good timing.

Black Belts (9 + years of training) are even more smooth in their transitions and finish their submissions/sweeps/escape attempts at a higher percentage. In addition, they begin to solve more problems on their own, without the need of someone to guide them through every technique variation.

Excellent!

Well, it sounds like I really need to get the ball rolling in my ground game, so that I can start figuring this stuff out.

[ps1]

Wow, although following what you guys are saying is a bit tough for me, I do find the discussion quite interesting at to how you guys view these. It also appears that you evolve quite a bit as you gain experience.

This is very much the case.

As a white belt (0 to 2 years of training), the guard is usually used simply to keep a person from getting around you. They fight hard to keep the feet locked and rarely attack efficiently from the position.

Blue belts (1 to 3 years of training) usually do a better job of attacking from the closed guard, but get lost once the guard is open and lose focus. They tend to see different guards as separate.

Purple belts (3 to 6 years of training) begin to start seeing the bigger picture. They realize that they can open up, get the grip they need and go back to guard. This understanding causes them to become much more efficient at attacking from the position.

Brown Belts (6 to 10 years of training) start to apply the bigger picture. The various guard positions flow into one another, setting up techniques and applying defenses with good timing.

Black Belts (9 + years of training) are even more smooth in their transitions and finish their submissions/sweeps/escape attempts at a higher percentage. In addition, they begin to solve more problems on their own, without the need of someone to guide them through every technique variation.

Excellent!

Well, it sounds like I really need to get the ball rolling in my ground game, so that I can start figuring this stuff out.

And we're only talking about the guard. Now remember that the same rules apply universally though all positions. Guard, Side Control, Mount, Rear Mount on both top and bottom of the position.

[ShoriKid]

The big thing, Shori, is to relax and actaully work those new positions during free roll time. Don't worry about doing as well with it as the closed guard you're comfortable with. Get smashed a bit, passed, it's okay. Figuring out how to use those new tools is far more valuable than "winning" with the same thing you've been doing for years again.

When rolling I try to pick a couple of things to focus on, like say using a particular pass we just learned/worked on, or transitioning to butter fly from half and then going from there. Getting pummeled and submitted don't bother me much. There are days, but they are far fewer than they used to be.

I hear what you're saying and I'll try to keep it in mind when rolling. The advice is much appreciated.

Makes me think I need to go see the JJ instructor up the road from us about taking my guys up for a visit this winter to work out. I've known the guy for more than 10 years and visited his school when he opened(It's literally up the road from my parents place). fresh eyes, experience and not worrying about having to be the instructor for a ground lesson might help too.

[Iron Arahat]

Think about it, can you do those things from any given point in the guard? If not, you have a hole that can and will be exploited.

Any thoughts on this?

I think that there is a hole in pretty much everyone's guard game, and it is a pretty low percentage in which you see most fighters get finished in someone's guard.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Think about it, can you do those things from any given point in the guard? If not, you have a hole that can and will be exploited.

Any thoughts on this?

I think that there is a hole in pretty much everyone's guard game, and it is a pretty low percentage in which you see most fighters get finished in someone's guard.

Submissions only make up a certain percentage of wins in mma. But many submission wins actually come from the guard.

[ps1]

Think about it, can you do those things from any given point in the guard? If not, you have a hole that can and will be exploited.

Any thoughts on this?

I think that there is a hole in pretty much everyone's guard game, and it is a pretty low percentage in which you see most fighters get finished in someone's guard.

I think you may have missed the point of my original post. I am not saying that you should/will submit everyone from your guard. Rather, the guard is far more dynamic than that. It is a launching platform from which you can submit a person, sweep a person, or simply get back to your feet and defend yourself from that position. Further, any practitioner of BJJ should be prepared to use any of those three options at any time from the guard (closed or otherwise). So the hole only exists if the practitioner does not understand when to do what.

As to your comment, I don't see it as a hole when a fighter doesn't get submitted from the guard. I see it as one of the other two options being employed. The only time a hole is exposed is when a person gets beat up while trying to use their guard or gets their guard passed.

Look at it this way. If you're in the guard that probably means that you were taken down (in a fight/mma). So, in this regard, you're already late. By keeping an opponent at bay and not letting them hurt you, you have successfully defended yourself. Self defense is never about hurting someone else...it's about preventing them from hurting you/your loved ones.

[Jay]

Well, it sounds like I really need to get the ball rolling in my ground game, so that I can start figuring this stuff out.

Yea you should. Although most of what the guys talk about is too advanced for me at the moment I pick little things up. Doing ground work is one of the best things I have done. Knowing you from the forum im sure you would enjoy it alot. Im grateful that I have schools close to me now.

Anyway carry on guys