Korean for "senior student"?

[joesteph]

It is similar to Japanese yudansha, because it's the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters 有段者. In Korean they're called hanja.

I figured that much. Wonder why Joe's school use "yu gup ja" instead of the equivalent term for "mudansha"....

It could just be to avoid involving the term "dan" when at gup level, Danielle. It's also more uniform, with you/yu used for all those below 4th dan; for 4th dan+ the person's called "master," as my sons' teacher is Master Noelia Lago, who's 4th dan, but sometimes Mr. Menendez (3rd dan) has instructed.

[isshinryu5toforever]

It is similar to Japanese yudansha, because it's the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters 有段者. In Korean they're called hanja.

I figured that much. Wonder why Joe's school use "yu gup ja" instead of the equivalent term for "mudansha"....

It could just be to avoid involving the term "dan" when at gup level, Danielle. It's also more uniform, with you/yu used for all those below 4th dan; for 4th dan+ the person's called "master," as my sons' teacher is Master Noelia Lago, who's 4th dan, but sometimes Mr. Menendez (3rd dan) has instructed.

They probably just like using the term, because mudanja literally means non degreed person. Mu means nothing, dan means degree, ja means person. Which means there is no need to avoid using dan, because you're literally saying it's a person with no dan ranking. A person who is a 4th dan is a sabumnim, but they are also a yudanja. Yudanja is any person who has reached the dan grades.

I'm still interested in why they use the designation haksanim at Rateh's dojang. I couldn't find any alternative definition or hanja for that kind of usage. Haksa is, as far as I know, designated for university graduates.

[Rateh]

I have no idea.

We also use choksanim (I'm sure I spelled that totally wrong) for a black belt without a dan grade (we call it temporary black belt, its between color belt and dans).

I have never found that one online before.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I can't find that word at all, and I've never heard it. That's not to say it doesn't exist. It might be a Chinese character word that was created. Nim is an honorific modifier in Korean, so it has no Hanja, but Chok and Sa could be two separate words that were put together. Maybe your instructor knows?

[joesteph]

We also use choksanim (I'm sure I spelled that totally wrong) for a black belt without a dan grade (we call it temporary black belt, its between color belt and dans).

Kyo Sa Nim is used in Soo Bahk Do (and, I believe, Tang Soo Do) as a title for those who are from 1st to 3rd dan, and who have passed testing to be instructors. (Sa Bom Nim is 4+.)

Cho Dan is used for a 1st degree dan member, just as shodan is in a Japanese art.

If you take cho and add it to Kyo Sa Nim, you'll get Chokyosanim (or "Choksanim"), which is likely what your art is using for the temporary black belt, Rateh.

[isshinryu5toforever]

We also use choksanim (I'm sure I spelled that totally wrong) for a black belt without a dan grade (we call it temporary black belt, its between color belt and dans).

Kyo Sa Nim is used in Soo Bahk Do (and, I believe, Tang Soo Do) as a title for those who are from 1st to 3rd dan, and who have passed testing to be instructors. (Sa Bom Nim is 4+.)

Cho Dan is used for a 1st degree dan member, just as shodan is in a Japanese art.

If you take cho and add it to Kyo Sa Nim, you'll get Chokyosanim (or "Choksanim"), which is likely what your art is using for the temporary black belt, Rateh.

Kyo sa nim means teacher. That makes sense. Kyo su nim would mean professor, which would make more sense. BJJ uses the title professor if I remember correctly. The standard Korean term for teacher is seon saeng nim, but kyo sa nim can be used as well. It's all in the Hanja. Kyo sa nim literally means a person who is a teacher. Seon saeng nim means the one who came before me, so also a teacher. Sa beom nim means master of course. Cho is an independent hanja character meaning first or beginning. So Cho dan is broken into first grade or beginning grade. It isn't just breaking down certain characters and meshing them together.

The best I can come up with is if they took Chok (촉) from the word to be promoted chokjin (촉진) and sa (사) as in person, which could be turned into choksa using specific characters to mean promoted person. This is the best I can do. It makes sense, because they have been promoted, but they aren't yet fully promoted to yudanja status.

Seon is pronounced sun btw.

[DWx]

Handy having you around isshinryu5toforever thanks for all the info.

We use:

Boo sabum nim for assistant instructor / 1st-3rd dan

Sabum nim for instructor / 4th-6th dan

Sahyun nim for master / 7th-8th dan

Saseongn im for grandmaster / 9th dan

Do you know what the English translations are for each? Ive always wondered why we use "sa bum" rather than "kyo sa"...

[Rateh]

Wow, thanks for the insight!

Do you know what kwanjangnim means?

[DWx]

Wow, thanks for the insight!

Do you know what kwanjangnim means?

Is that not just the school owner/chief of the style, with "kwan" meaning school and I assume "jang" refers to being the leader of the school?

We also use choksanim (I'm sure I spelled that totally wrong) for a black belt without a dan grade (we call it temporary black belt, its between color belt and dans).

Was Googling some of this and found a school that uses "Cho gi nim" for student instructor. Could that be an alternate spelling/altered form?

[isshinryu5toforever]

I have a feeling different Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do dojang use different terms depending on who the instructor was. Some terms are definite, but not all. Also, the Korean accent can be hard to pick up, so some non-Korean instructors really mispronounce some words. As they teach students, it gets worse and worse, until the original word and the word now aren't the same anymore.

I think sabum used to be reserved for the instructor ranks 4th-6th dan, and sahyun was reserved for masters that were not kwanjang. Remember nim is an honorific modifier, so no one would refer to themselves as sabumnim. My friend is a 4th dan in TKD, so he would say: I am Lee sabum. I would say: This is Lee sabumnim. A kwanjangnim should be someone who is the head of a style. It's been used now for people who are the owners of schools if they've above 8th dan.

Here's the standard I've seen:

4th-6th dan: sabumnim = master

7th-8th dan: sahyunnim = grand master, because you know, rank inflation

9th-10th dan: kwanjangnim = should be the head of the style if you're this rank

Jang should refer to someone being the head or the top so he is the head of the kwan. The head of the style.

Cho gi nim is a word I'm not familiar with, but like I said, a lot of words can be created from Hanja. This looks like a hanja word. Ki and Sa don't share the same principles though, so it likely means something entirely different.

On why you would use sabum rather than kyosa, kyosa is a school teacher. Kyo is the hanja word that means education. So a person who is an education person is a school teacher. That's why it has less of a place in martial arts, but could still be used.