Interesting analogy that I came up with (kata/kumite/fight)

[RW]

Imagine for a minute that fighting is the same as talking.

You could equate fighting (real fighting) to a conversation: You can talk about anything, there are no rules to the conversation and if you don't know the language, well... the conversation will go wrong.

Kumite in its different variants is like those conversation drills you get in language classes: You talk to someone else, about a topic you agreed on, and there are some rules to that prefabricated conversations. Yes, you can probably use your conversation-drills to learn how to speak a language.

Kata is... like learning the lyrics of a song. You will sing a pre-arranged sequence of words, with some rhythm to it, and with a high emphasis on flow, beauty and aesthetics. Yes, you will learn the words and you may get a great pronunciation. In some ways, there is more to the analogy, for instance, a kata is a fight with an imaginary enemy (or enemies), while a song is a conversation with an imaginary person (or persons). But learning to sing some songs won't teach you a language...

What do you think of my analogy? Sure, it may not be PERFECT, but I thought it's pretty cool...

[honoluludesktop]

Don't know about Kata, but I have always thought about kumite and conversation in the manner that you expressed. The problem is when people start shouting at each other in order to dominate a discussion. I believe in sempai / kohai kumite, where sempai is always taking care of kohai, and kohai respects sempai. Problem with this is "who" is sempai. Especially in the case when a naturally powerful inexperienced beginner is unable to act as the stronger fighter, and take care of his partner.

An experienced Sensei will know how to handle this, but it means exercising special care with this kind of beginner. Unfortunately, some teachers do not have the experience required to handle this kind of situation.

[ps1]

Interesting analogy. I kinda like it.

[StrangeBacon]

Interesting analogy. I kinda like it.

Same, never thought about it like that before.

[sensei8]

It bears to have never been thought about along those lines; interesting!

[bushido_man96]

I think it is an interesting analogy, and there are some parallels there.

So, what happens if I can't sing worth a crap?

[sensei8]

I think it is an interesting analogy, and there are some parallels there.

So, what happens if I can't sing worth a crap?

ROFLMBBO...hahaahahahahaahahaaa...you're killing me Brian...NOW that's funny!

[joesteph]

You could equate fighting (real fighting) to a conversation . . .

Kumite . . . is like those conversation drills you get in language classes: You talk to someone else, about a topic you agreed on, and there are some rules to that prefabricated conversations.

Kata is... like learning the lyrics of a song.

So . . .

• - Would you say, RW, that if we extend what you've said about a conversation (real fighting) going wrong, it's like having an argument?
   
  - While kumite, which has rules, is like formal debate, which also has rules?
   
  - And kata is as a song whose words are carefully chosen, expected to be pondered, and meant to convey a message?

I like the analogy; you obviously gave it a lot of thought. I just wanted to go with the flow of it.

[DWx]

Nice analogy RW

I think it is an interesting analogy, and there are some parallels there.

So, what happens if I can't sing worth a crap?

[bushido_man96]

I guess if I can't carry a tune in a bucket, then arguments is the way to for me....????

Joe, I like what you say, too. I do think that a formal debate or a "gentleman's disagreement" would be more like competition, and arguments with no set breaks or reprieves would be more like the fight.