Mawashi Geri Vs. Traditional Round Kick

[tufrthanu]

Well I explained the two kicks in the first post I'm not sure why there should be confusion and someone posted a couple videos of them later in the thread. To Joe's point though I've always heard that in the traditional version of a round kick you should NOT go upwards at a diagonal as that is bad technique. Not bad technique for that particular kick but bad technique in general. However, having said that it does seem that many of the mawashi geri/hybrid round kicks do go upwards at a 45 degree angle or so although whether that is from intent to bypass the elbow or just because its quicker and more easily accessible through body mechanics I don't know. I have personally never had a problem with hitting the elbow however from sparring my instructor I did learn that if your opponent does the round kick with the ball of their foot many of the blocks that can stop a round kick with the instep fail to so in this instance due to the extended penetration.

[joesteph]

. . . it does seem that many of the mawashi geri/hybrid round kicks do go upwards at a 45 degree angle or so although whether that is from intent to bypass the elbow or just because its quicker and more easily accessible through body mechanics I don't know.

It won't have the power, but I was taught it at a "fighting school" I attended for a couple of months to get contact sparring time in, that it's got a better chance of slipping under the elbow. I found that it gives me a better chance of hitting the ribs of my opponent, because of a combo of my height (5'6" compared with mostly taller opponents) and the fact that I'm a low kicker even with someone who is my own height. When I shin-kicked (trying it as Muay Thai-like as possible) the heavy bag, I was told I had a lot of power, and that it'd be to my benefit in an actual altercation to just go for the knees/thighs.

Incidentally, tufrthanu, when I took Jeet Kune Do lessons (mostly to learn the straight lead, but kicks were brought in), I practiced striking a roundhouse (JKD "hook") kick to the knee area, and was encouraged to try to come in on a diagonal down to the side of the knee, the idea being that more power would be generated against that joint to blow it out.

[DWx]

Well I explained the two kicks in the first post I'm not sure why there should be confusion...

What confused me is the labelling of the TKD style kick as the traditional version. TBH I'd call the mawashi geri style more traditional compared to that. Part of its probably because I have never done kicks like that. Seems a bit weird to me.

[tufrthanu]

Joe I also have seen versions that strike downwards and I can see how that would be beneficial especially if you could keep your velocity and power consistent or increasing throughout the entire kick.

[bushido_man96]

In sparring, aren't many roundhouses to the ribs at a diagonal, to get under the opponent's protective elbow?

Would that fall under mawashi geri, traditional, or hybrid?

I'd call it a hybrid. Kind of a 45 degree angle kick. It tends to be the most popular kick that I've seen in Olympic TKD sparring.

To Joe's point though I've always heard that in the traditional version of a round kick you should NOT go upwards at a diagonal as that is bad technique. Not bad technique for that particular kick but bad technique in general.

Its not bad technique. Its just a different technique. It tends to be quicker, and takes more of a straight line path to the target. But, it does tend to lack in power generation from the hip and from a lack of pivot.

[tufrthanu]

I guess I should rephrase bushidoman in most Tae Kwon Do schools and Hapkido schools an upward angled round kick is specifically described as bad technique in regard to a traditional round kick. Now there may be places that do it especially if its an eclectic school and there may be benefits to it but I was solely speaking to the way it is taught as proper form for that kick.

[bushido_man96]

It has more to do with what different schools and instructors prefer in their technique, and what they feel is the standard for the style they do. Just because they call it "bad," doesn't mean it is. Its just that they don't like it, or never learned it, or have never put it to use. That's ok, but its not a good idea to discount it like that as "bad" because it isn't what some would call the "proper" TKD kick.

[tufrthanu]

The kick mentioned in my original post should not angle upward. If they do it different its a different kick. Any book or dvd or instructor will teach it the same way. Now they may have a modified version but then its no longer the original kick.

[ps1]

To Joe's point though I've always heard that in the traditional version of a round kick you should NOT go upwards at a diagonal as that is bad technique. Not bad technique for that particular kick but bad technique in general. However, having said that it does seem that many of the mawashi geri/hybrid round kicks do go upwards at a 45 degree angle or so although whether that is from intent to bypass the elbow or just because its quicker and more easily accessible through body mechanics I don't know.

You see the 45 degree angle round house kick in two major venues used for very different things.

1) It is very common in olympic TKD in order to be quicker to the target and to easily slip under the arms (which are often left hanging in this type of sparring). In this video you'll see several kicks thrown at this angle, along with other variations.

2) In MMA, a straight line from the ground to the head (usually 45 degrees) is taken with the kick. The point of contact is most often the shin however. This is because the kicker sets up an angle where the opponent's shoulder would not impede the kick and/or the kicker notices the opponent has left his head hanging to be kicked easily. Here's a video that demonstrates my point:

The reasoning for both of these is speed. It's simply faster to move straight to a target rather than moving up to a 90 degree angle and then over to the target. Think of a right triangle. The hypotenuse is always going to be shorter than the sum of the other two sides.

As for the original question:

I chose traditional, simply because I prefer it. That said, I think they are completely different weapons. I do tend to use my shin as the striking surface though.

[ps1]

Its not bad technique. Its just a different technique. It tends to be quicker, and takes more of a straight line path to the target. But, it does tend to lack in power generation from the hip and from a lack of pivot.

I would disagree. This kick is used in Muay Thai, MMA, and Olympic TKD. I've seen KOs in all of them. It's an extremely powerful kick. It's power is generated more from the momentum of the movement and pivoting of the entire body into the kick rather than from the snappy turn of the hips with the strike, however. The power generation of a more traditional round kick comes from the rotation of both the hips and leg as you turn it from the vertical to horizontal position. Both are very powerful kicks though.

I really like to mix it up with both versions of the kick in order to keep an opponent off balance. If they start checking low line kicks, I'll switch up in order to rise over their knee.

Additionally, I like to rotate the traditional kick to come in on a downward angle, striking the bridge of the nose, clavicle or outter thigh (using shin).