Who competes in kata?

[Hecklerboy]

I absolutely love katas.

I also love competing in kata.

It sometimes helps to get a different perspective from other martial artist on how I perform my kata.

[likeke34]

I've always competed in both kata and kumite... Well, not always, I started kata as a white belt nearly 21yrs ago lol, started kumite at blue belt and have done both ever since...

Growing up here (hawaii), the same people that won kata also won kumite! it was always the same few people i'd compete against that would rotate positions... sometimes i'd win 1st, sometimes 2nd or 3rd, but even when there were 10+ competitors me and 3 people would rotate those 3 places majority of the time...

I know things change or it might be different now, but growing up i remember george kotaka & garin miyaji competing against each other and they were the top 2 in both kata and kumite... although garin stopped fighting and george seemed to specialize more now, i noticed a correlation between the 2...

maybe i'm an old dog even though i'm only 29 lol, but i feel that you need to try your best at both! I've competed in the FSKA world tournament in las vegas and noticed that the same people in my kata division were not the same people in my kumite division... the foreign countries all had specialized teams for kata and kumite... i didn't win either division, but i did take 2nd in kata, and i did take 3rd in kumite, and it felt good to be one of the few who competed and placed in both as an adult blackbelt!

just a note, kata is subjective IMO... a judge at the fska world tourney came up to me and told me he really liked my kata, but that i wouldn't win performing it that way because it was too traditional... the others added extra flares to traditional kata that gave them the edge (although 2nd wasn't too bad)! Those guys were good though! the kumite guys were fast as lightning, luckily i've fought george before so it wasn't new to me and i was able to hold my own... and they didn't hit as hard as he does lol

[bushido_man96]

I have always enjoyed forms competition, and usually do that if given a choice. Sparring is nice, too, but I have never excelled at it. I have tended to place better in forms, and always liked it.

[GOM]

I have competed in many competitions over 20+ years in both kata and kumite - WKF (WUKO) competitions mainly.

However I think competition kata has ruined karate.

Competition kata promotes bad muscle memory - hand to the hip after striking or blocking, long unnatural stances and movements, blocks and punches to the body, repetitive stop-start action, etc. The kihon practised in most dojo, and I was doing the same, is competition kata based. Many times we would move up and down the dojo in front stances practicing outside block, and then move back in backstance doing knife-hand block - all to make the competition kata prettier! This type of practice did not make my karate stronger, and in fact hindered my ability to defend myself because my muscle memory would be to punch to the body with a straight(ish) arm, or try and move back into an awkward backstance. And don't even get me started on Hangetsu-Dachi....

Thoughts?

[DWx]

I have competed in many competitions over 20+ years in both kata and kumite - WKF (WUKO) competitions mainly.

However I think competition kata has ruined karate.

Competition kata promotes bad muscle memory - hand to the hip after striking or blocking, long unnatural stances and movements, blocks and punches to the body, repetitive stop-start action, etc. The kihon practised in most dojo, and I was doing the same, is competition kata based. Many times we would move up and down the dojo in front stances practicing outside block, and then move back in backstance doing knife-hand block - all to make the competition kata prettier! This type of practice did not make my karate stronger, and in fact hindered my ability to defend myself because my muscle memory would be to punch to the body with a straight(ish) arm, or try and move back into an awkward backstance. And don't even get me started on Hangetsu-Dachi....

Thoughts?

Surely that all applies to kata in general and not just competition kata? Unless you do your kata significantly different.

[honoluludesktop]

There is no question that kata champions are good at what they do, but in a martial art, kumite is the final judge of a champion.

[ninjanurse]

I disagree on the idea that kata "ruins your karate". Basics are basics, whether they are done moving up and down the floor or in a fixed pattern (kata) and they are integral to developing muscles, coordination, balance, movement theory/movement analysis, flexibility, strength, spatial references, distance, visualization, speed of delivery, cardio-vascular endurance, self discipline, and power. The transition to kumite depends on the development and balance of these skills and can only enhance it. I have never seen what has been referred to as "bad habits", such as chambering the hand at the waist, in any students during sparring as just as basics are basics, kumite is kumite. My opinion is that it boils down to personal preference and those that to not like kata (and the discipline involved in it's practice) make excuses for not practicing it and focus instead on other aspects of their art- which is their choice....and loss.

As for the question at hand....while kata practice enhances your physical skills it does not guarantee that you will be good enough at kumite to be a champion....and nether does training in just kumite.

[honoluludesktop]

I agree that kata will not "ruin your karate", and I too enjoy competition. But IMO, Karate is not personal preference for how one trains, it is about "combat". Kata can not teach mental focus in the heat of battle, attacking without excessive tension, or even something as primitive as proper distance. Kata is OK for practicing physical technique, but by itself is only the stage that precedes combat.

Kata is like the "garrisoned Army"; spit shine and polish. Anyone who has lived under fire for a prolonged period of time, knows the feeling that differentiates between kumite and kata. Most Karateka are like "garrisoned troops". Truthfully, not a bad place to be, the silence from where logical sense departs.

[likeke34]

i may be thinking old school, but i personally think kata is essential in karate... maybe it wont directly affect your kumite, but i think it teaches you things like concentration, speed, power, kime, etc... like i said earlier, and i'll use george kotaka as an example again, he has extremely crisp kata techniques... low stance, good timing, snap, kime, fluid movements, and he's WKF world kumite champion... idk if he competes in kata anymore but his kata is really nice

some people like to specialize in kumite, some in kata, but there are those (and i really admire and respect them) who become tournament grand champions by winning in both... Frank Brennan is a great example... his kumite was deadly, but he also had nice kata and won 1st in both...

i just don't like how people are trying to eliminate kata by saying it's useless because IMO it's far from useless... look at lyoto machida, ufc fighter (former lhw champion) and STILL practices kata lol...

Chinzo machida as well... he performs unsu and he fought ogata in a close fight to take 2nd...

my point is, some of the best in the world at kumite, practice kata, and their katas are clean... i think people just want to kumite because it's more interactive and fun so they rather not do kata... and i personally just don't agree w/that mentality... When I competed in the FSKA world championships, all i wanted was to take 1st in both lol... although i fell short in both (2nd in kata, 3rd kumite), i was surprised i was the only person in my divisions who competed in both...

anyways, long post lol, but that's just my opinion

[joesteph]

i just don't like how people are trying to eliminate kata by saying it's useless because IMO it's far from useless...

Speaking for myself, I don't want to eliminate kata in my training. Just tonight, I was speaking with a guest instructor for my children who's also instructed me, and he thinks as I do, that individuals who learn kata should have an introduction to/some amount of training in the applications.

I have been accepted to return to training in September to remember and practice what is required of me as a 4th gup. Whatever applications I can learn, and it's clear that I'm not going for promotions (my proficiency has its limits), can be based on the katas I already know. There's so much gold there, not only to mine, but to practice, practice, practice. Students will practice, say, the side kick hundreds of times (add it up!), but have no practice in the abundant bunkai from kata they've performed on the floor even once.