I say this is my face. I'm told it's not.

[joesteph]

If you notice, I responded to this post earlier from my own point of view. Maybe it would help if you actually told us whose philosophical idea you are using for the discussion.

In an earlier post, you referred to one's perception, and I feel that that is on the mark if seen psychologically. I feel that GeoGiant was on the mark. I am not referring to someone's philosophical idea of reality; I am examining a psychological perception. I am pointing out that I believe and maintained in class that this is my face, the beard as an integral part of it, while most of my students in the psychology classes thought the face and beard are actually separate. I said and say no, that this is my face, that as it is, it is complete.

The discussion is of identification and recognition of myself, whether it is sound, mentally sound, that I say "This is my face," with the beard as part of the completeness of my face, or that the many students who disagreed are right that my face is beneath the beard, and the beard a kind of accessory, one that might even evoke the question "Why are you hiding your face?"--to which I'd reply that I do not hide it; this is my face.

[sensei8]

If you notice, I responded to this post earlier from my own point of view. Maybe it would help if you actually told us whose philosophical idea you are using for the discussion.

In an earlier post, you referred to one's perception, and I feel that that is on the mark if seen psychologically. I feel that GeoGiant was on the mark. I am not referring to someone's philosophical idea of reality; I am examining a psychological perception. I am pointing out that I believe and maintained in class that this is my face, the beard as an integral part of it, while most of my students in the psychology classes thought the face and beard are actually separate. I said and say no, that this is my face, that as it is, it is complete.

The discussion is of identification and recognition of myself, whether it is sound, mentally sound, that I say "This is my face," with the beard as part of the completeness of my face, or that the many students who disagreed are right that my face is beneath the beard, and the beard a kind of accessory, one that might even evoke the question "Why are you hiding your face?"--to which I'd reply that I do not hide it; this is my face.

Aha, now I'm beginning to understand your meaning! I'm not a dull knife, but I'm not the sharpest knife either. In my martial arts, I'm not slow, but in other things, I'm quite the turtle in the brain department!

[joesteph]

Aha, now I'm beginning to understand your meaning!

That's really what I want the psychology students to do, Bob, to understand where the person, and it may be a "client" (psychiatrists, as MDs, have patients; psychologists usually refer to people they counsel as clients) is coming from. I make certain they feel free to express themselves in class, voice their perceptions, and still find out what a person, possibly a client, who in this case is their teacher, perceives about himself.

This KF discussion is being done by postings. Imagine it in person, two classes, and I'm not telling them their thinking is "wrong," but that this is my perception about myself.

[DWx]

Interesting topic Joe

Recently I had a hair cut and the lady cut it too short . . . This is very disconcerting to my sister . . . [W]earing it differently I am no longer "me".

My boys are 8 yrs. old. If I shave my beard, will they still see Daddy, or will I not be "me" to them, just as I feel that I won't be "me" to myself?

Whilst not totally the same thing, my mum wears glasses. Always has done to me, she never wears contacts either. When she takes them off she is my mother but then again she isn't the same person to me. To me, the glasses are an integral part of her face, in the same way a beard could be considered a part of yours. Without the glasses she is still the same person but then again she she isn't because all of my memories of her are associated with a face that has glasses. And its not just the individual pair glasses themselves. She actually has several pairs of different colours and styles she switches between but that doesn't affect the way I see her as much as when she takes them off. I don't know whether she perceives them to be part of her face but I certainly do.

[joesteph]

I don't know whether she perceives them to be part of her face but I certainly do.

Would you consider asking her, Danielle? Even tell her your perception? It might be interesting to kick this around with her.

[Rateh]

I've worn glasses since I was 8. That's 18 years. I cannot get around without them and only take them off to shower and to sleep, and sometimes not even for that, because I don't like being blind.

But I do not consider my glasses to be a part of my face. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I can't even see my face without my glasses on though. (I have to take someone along to go glasses shopping or I have no idea what I'm buying ) But I feel like the same me with or without.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Now I see where you are coming from. As I said before, I was simply responding to what other people had brought up about Buddhism. I definitely think your religious and philosophical ideas shape your psychology. That's why I said what I did about perceptions of reality. Your religious of philosophical perception of reality will influence your psychological perception of self. That's just where I was coming from, and why I said what I did about Buddhism.

[joesteph]

Now I see where you are coming from. As I said before, I was simply responding to what other people had brought up about Buddhism. I definitely think your religious and philosophical ideas shape your psychology.

Thanks for the clarification!