Annoyed by BJJ?

[Akikazeninja]

I think lots of people are annoyed by bjj because recently its almost everywhere and everyone is talking about it. But for me it's just natural. For example in Poland not so long ago you wouldnt hear anything about muay thai, but after a few movis and tv shows about it, everyone wants to practice it. So it's the same with bjj. And mayby after few years something else would be more 'cool'

Very good point people will always be wanting to do the "new" MA because "the grass is always greener on the other side" so I think people get irritated because they feel their Ma is outdated because nobody talks about it

[tallgeese]

I think there's alot more to it than that.

When UFC 1 hit, everyone who did arts for combative reasons had to take notice. Here was a hole that pretty much everyone had in their game. So, either one hid his head in the sand and said it'd never happen to him (getting put on the ground) or they started to work ground fighting into their paradigm.

Flash forward 15 years, now there are CREDIABLE BJJ instructors almost everywhere. Now all those people who scrambled for information 15 years ago can study in a bonafide camp. There's alot of that going on.

Also, the newer generation of practitioners has grown up in the post-Lee era, where what works is to be assimilated or used. Now, those same people are living in the MMA era where everything gets tested live. It's a good combination for sorting out reliable movements that work over large sections of situations for unarmed conflict.

Don't worry, I'm getting to a point.

This group sees BJJ as an art that constantly tests itself. Unlike many stand up arts, it's free sparring is a major part of it's identity and how practitioners do at it defines them as well. This heavy emphasis on free rolling really shows them that their movements work under duress. It lets them constantly test it and refine it.

I'm not saying you can't do that with stand up arts, but you're going to pay the price if you're hitting each other in the head full contact, no gear each and every time you train. Pretty soon, you won't be able to defend yourself against a toddler.

I think that's the major draw of BJJ right now. I think, from a combative standpoint, it's an area that many stand up artists need to look at more. Here's part of the problem, I think, many don't want to and that causes friction.

Now, if you don't want to because you truely love your art and that's all you want to do, you might be into it for the tradition or cultural or spiritual aspects, then by all means- more power to you. That's a great goal and one that should be respected.

However, if you're into arts to defend yourself and you don't want to look at the ground game because you think a single art, maybe yours, has all the answers, then one starts to dilude themselves. This can cause friction by people that want to show them how to make their game better.

Now, on the other side, sometimes BBJers can push that help where it's not wanted or down play other arts. but remember, these guys come up in a martial culture where it must be proved on the mat, and let's face it, a lot of trad arts don't lend themselves to that. So naturally, they see them as less.

It's about viewpoint.

Bottom line, I think, is to train what you want and use if for what you want. Just make sure you've done an honest assessment. I started in BJJ to shore up holes in my game. Now, I do it for the simple love of that art. Nothing says that your goals can't change. Just stay on top of it and have good enough self relization to see if you're meeting those goals or not.

[MMA_Jim]

In my opinion there are two major reasons people hate BJJ, and these lead to an unusual response.

1: it beats whatever it is they're doing- I wont name martial arts to avoid bashing, but if you do BJJ you know what I mean. This inevitably leads to number 2

2: They try to justify whatever style they do. Some believe that "all styles are equal" and "its the practictioner not the style" when the bottom line is that certain style are superior to others at particular things- period. This is reflected in what styles people train in for fighting.

Which leads to...

3: Everyone that did whatever martial art pre-BJJ now feels threatened by it. Instead of being .martial artists, they decided to become "street fighters" where "everything goes in the street" and "there are no rules" and "we train for more than one person for the street" because "going to the ground is bad in the street" etc etc. This is an appropriate response because it cant be measured, and allows them to percieve that BJJ isnt as effective as its proven to be

[sensei8]

Hate is such a strong word; SCARED might be more on the money, imho, and I'm neither, I don't hate BJJ nor am I scared of it. Why? BJJ is just another effective form of the martial arts...wait...it's another PROVEN effective form of the martial arts.

Everyone is another strong word. Everyone must include me, and I'm not threatened by BJJ, or any form of the martial arts at all. Therefore, not everyone is threatened by BJJ. BJJ is what it is, a proven effective form of the martial arts.

These words, "Beat" and "Whatever", are strong words. Whatever means anything and everything. Confidence is one thing, but, over confidence is another! Is BJJ superior, no, not in my opinion. Why? "Unless a human being will have 3 arms and 4 legs, we will have a different form of fighting."~Bruce Lee. Therefore, unless a human being will have 3 arms and 4 legs, THAT style of the martial arts might beat whatever.

To conclude to oneself that another form of the martial arts is superior to the style that 'I' practice, is to say that another form of the martial arts is superior to 'me'. That type of belief, imho, automatically traps oneself into including themselves as well.

Styles aren't equal; hence the word "Style"! I don't concur with those who propagate...you defeat the practitioner, you defeat the style. Should a practitioner be defeated, then that practitioner alone was defeated; not the style. It's possible that that practitioners interpretation of their practiced style is different than that of the founder of said style.

[JiuJitsuNation]

In my opinion there are two major reasons people hate BJJ, and these lead to an unusual response.

1: it beats whatever it is they're doing- I wont name martial arts to avoid bashing, but if you do BJJ you know what I mean. This inevitably leads to number 2

2: They try to justify whatever style they do. Some believe that "all styles are equal" and "its the practictioner not the style" when the bottom line is that certain style are superior to others at particular things- period. This is reflected in what styles people train in for fighting.

Which leads to...

3: Everyone that did whatever martial art pre-BJJ now feels threatened by it. Instead of being .martial artists, they decided to become "street fighters" where "everything goes in the street" and "there are no rules" and "we train for more than one person for the street" because "going to the ground is bad in the street" etc etc. This is an appropriate response because it cant be measured, and allows them to percieve that BJJ isnt as effective as its proven to be

I whole heartedly agree with the root of what you are saying. As forward as it seems and agree with Sensei8 as well, that it surely doesn't include everyone.

Tallgeese.... You just taught me something about myself. I never really put things together like that. I mean I have those pieces of the puzzle scattered out on the table, but you put them together for me.

[ShoriKid]

Most BJJers have no problem with most other MA folks. Most other MA folks have no problem with BJJers. However, there are a certain number on each end of things that don't much care for one another.

Most BJJ guys I've met are cool. They are happy to train in and share their art. They may not be too interested in what I, or others, are doing, but they are respectful just as long as you treat them with the same. They work hard and go out of their way to be helpful when they are training.

Most traditional stylists are the same way. They work hard, love their art and are happy to share it given honest interest. Respect garners respect and they will be helpful as they can when training with someone.

Then you have the trouble makers on both ends, and their problem is not too different from each other.

Here's where the problem a lot of people have with BJJ comes from in some cases:

BJJ, when it burst onto the scene in the early 90's came on with a claim that if you weren't doing BJJ, you weren't doing real martial arts. Many times it came with an attitude that anything else was lesser, a waste of time. If you wanted to learn how to really fight, all you needed was BJJ.

That attitude wasn't the only one, but it was the one that traditional stylists had to deal with a lot of the time. Those making contact with traditionalist most often were young guns with an axe to grind. Some of those guys are still out there. The "You're wasting your time with that karate crap" crowd isn't dead and gone. It's still out there, again, mostly, but not always, with the younger guys.

It's not all about insecure traditionalists standing around harumphing(or however you spell it! ) and wishing that no one had done any of this 'full contact' or 'ground fighting' stuff. Sure, there is some of that. That absolute assurance that what they do is best and nothing can top it is there for some hard core guys. And, there are guys, just like the BJJ guys who don't work stand up, who just love their art, want to perfect it and don't see the need to get into something else.

What Tallgeese was touching on about the inability to safely train stand up full contact, without some serious injury, or heavily geared up(which is prohibitively expensive) is something often over looked or brushed off by grapplers. They get to go full bore and, sure you're a little sore, but why doesn't everyone else? I think I just went full blown tangent though and maybe I'll open a new thread about that when I get in from training tonight.

[Jay]

There is no problem with BJJ im a big fan of it.

For me the attitude of a certain family or rather only certain members of the family is rather clouded. Somehow they still think its the ultimate 'thing' but after the original UFC matches and everyone was equipped on the ground striking became important as well.

BJJ is great, but like all martial arts its only a tool to be used in a certain situation likewise boxing, karate and even Kali. They are all good at what they do if done to a high level, they all have advantages and disadvantages.

In my experience there are always practitioners in all arts that think they can rule the world. It sometimes takes something to happen that maybe their art doesn't cover as well as another one to accept it. There will always be a situation where and art doesn't cover something enough, against a gun we are all in trouble

[bushido_man96]

I think lots of people are annoyed by bjj because recently its almost everywhere and everyone is talking about it. But for me it's just natural. For example in Poland not so long ago you wouldnt hear anything about muay thai, but after a few movis and tv shows about it, everyone wants to practice it. So it's the same with bjj. And mayby after few years something else would be more 'cool'

Very good point people will always be wanting to do the "new" MA because "the grass is always greener on the other side" so I think people get irritated because they feel their Ma is outdated because nobody talks about it

It doesn't have anything to do with what is "new" or "cool." Its been around for over 10 years in America now, so "new" isn't the word to use to describe it. Its popular because it is effective.

I think the other main problem that some traditional stylists have with BJJ is coming to the conclusion that spending 20 years learning how to fight on your feet can be nullified very quickly by a guy who has been ground fighting for 6 months to a year. That is a very large humble-pill to swallow, and some people have trouble swallowing it.

I think tallgeese really summed it up well in his post.

[Adonis]

Annoyed by BJJ? Absolutely!

1. Take downs. They need to be trained more. If a bjj coach isn't good at them please try to bring in a good wrestling or judo coach. Especially at the begging level students. Gives them more confidence in there matches.

2. IBJJF Tournament fee's and certain rules. Enough said!

3. The saying leave your ego at the door. Biggest life ever.

4. The consistently stinky or poor hygiene guy. Please clean up or just go away for good. No one likes you!

5. People with attitudes that basically think if they haven't seen a move in the big tournaments in the black belt division. Then it isn't a legit move.

6. If a teacher hasn't placed in the worlds in the black belt division. They aren't legit.

7. BJJ fan boys who think that Royce proved BJJ is the best fighting art and the rest are useless.

8. Belt Standards or requirements are to vague or non existent. I wish there was some mesurable set of standards across the board.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Annoyed by BJJ? Absolutely!

1. Take downs. They need to be trained more. If a bjj coach isn't good at them please try to bring in a good wrestling or judo coach. Especially at the begging level students. Gives them more confidence in there matches.

2. IBJJF Tournament fee's and certain rules. Enough said!

3. The saying leave your ego at the door. Biggest life ever.

4. The consistently stinky or poor hygiene guy. Please clean up or just go away for good. No one likes you!

5. People with attitudes that basically think if they haven't seen a move in the big tournaments in the black belt division. Then it isn't a legit move.

6. If a teacher hasn't placed in the worlds in the black belt division. They aren't legit.

7. BJJ fan boys who think that Royce proved BJJ is the best fighting art and the rest are useless.

8. Belt Standards or requirements are to vague or non existent. I wish there was some mesurable set of standards across the board.

First off, Hilarious!

A few of these erk me as well.

1. Done

2. True

3. Depends on where you go.

4. Yes and buy some biz your gi is yellow

5. ?? lol

6. I wouldn't say they aren't legit but if competing is your goal then you may want to find someone who has been there and done that.

7. People still talk about Royce?????

8. There is a standard but not everyone follows the rules.