Annoyed by BJJ?

[JohnASE]

Personally, I'm not annoyed by BJJers. We have a few as customers, and they're a pretty decent group as a whole. Jean Jacques Machado is one of the nicest, most humble martial artists I know and obviously very skilled. Of course, we're primarily a wholesale business, so most of our dealings are with instructors, not the rank and file.

What I hear is that BJJ and MMA attract a lot of... lets call them thugs. They're troublemakers looking to learn how to fight their way out of trouble that they create. Part of their troublemaking could be bashing other styles. As others have said, they're probably the minority, but they could be a vocal minority. Maybe it's this minority that annoys people. I guess I'm basically rephrasing what others have already said.

As far as the "superior" martial art debate goes, I think there's no single answer, because it depends how you define things. Is the superior martial art the one that creates the best fighter, or the one that creates the greatest number of good fighters, or the one that maximizes its practitioners' happiness? Is it the one that enables you to quickly destroy your opponent, or the one that teaches the skills necessary to diffuse a threat without serious injury to either party? Which is a better war-one where you kill everyone on the other side, or one where the other side surrenders with few casualties?

I had a customer once who was attacked by a guy with a crowbar. In response, he hit and kicked the guy in rapid succession. The guy's eyes rolled back in his head, and he dropped. His temple swelled like a baseball. My customer reacted the way he had been trained, and he reacted without thought. He decided his martial art was NOT superior. He won the encounter, but he was unhappy with the outcome. He switched to a style that he thought would teach him self-control and give him the option of controlling his opponent without causing so much damage.

[mr_obvious]

BJJ as a system is surely effective enough. I would echo what others have said.........

1) BJJ is not the end-all-be-all fighting system. Just like...

2) Striking systems aren't wholly effective in *every* situation either.

3) BJJ's predominance in MMA, and pop culture to some extent, make it the preference of a lot of n00bsteak martial artists.

4) n00bz, hormonal youths, adrenaline junkies....are vocal, and think they're the.....um....[stuff]; and whatever system they're practicing is "the best."

5) Right now....BJJ's prominence and popularity attracts the type described in points #3&4.

Growing up in SoCal, in the 80's I saw the same thing happen with Karate; fueled, no doubt by the prominent box office hits of the era. A lot of kids who took Karate (usually at undisciplined McDojos) walked around with chips on their shoulders; in similar fashion.

In my area, in the last two years..... The number of BJJ / MMA schools has equaled, perhaps even surpassed the number of traditional striking schools. Seems I spot a new one under construction every few months...... While I've not met any of the proprietors / instructors, and can't really comment on their disposition. I have noticed many of their websites and blogs constantly 'remind' members to leave their egos at the door, that there are lessons to be learned -- even when you lose a match, get tapped out, whatever. Reading between the lines, it's as if every n00b walking through the door expects to "own-up" right from the start.

In the Karate schools I've trained, respect comes before all else. Including Sensei & Sempai (of course) fellow Deshi, Dojo visitors, adversaries, other arts.....whatever it may be -- respect comes first. It seems this lesson isn't taught, or at best, not emphasized in many BJJ circles. Doesn't make the BJJ system any better or worse than something else.

In a nutshell, no, not "annoyed" with BJJ. Just......some of it's practitioner's egos

[JiuJitsuNation]

I have noticed many of their websites and blogs constantly 'remind' members to leave their egos at the door, that there are lessons to be learned -- even when you lose a match, get tapped out, whatever. Reading between the lines, it's as if every n00b walking through the door expects to "own-up" right from the start.

In the Karate schools I've trained, respect comes before all else. Including Sensei & Sempai (of course) fellow Deshi, Dojo visitors, adversaries, other arts.....whatever it may be -- respect comes first. It seems this lesson isn't taught, or at best, not emphasized in many BJJ circles.

This is due to the nature of the training and the fact that in most schools you will be thrown into sparring immediately and doing A LOT of tapping in the beginning. Professor told me that the natural order is "first you learn how to tap, then you learn how to make tap." I believe this is just to get the noobs mind prepared for what they are about to experience.

As for who you described as the people jumping into BJJ. I haven't really noticed those types. My new location opened 4 months ago and I have almost 60 students consisting of families, children, LEOs, military, nurses, doctors and lawyers, business men, etc. Any of the credible BJJ schools I've been to this is the norm. Maybe these people aren't running around in tapout and affliction shirts screaming about it, but they are doing it.

Young people these days are vocal and their whole generation revolves around being seen and heard instantly.

[tallgeese]

I think BJJ schools sometimes get that "ego" rap from some mis-identification. I've really never seen a true, pure BJJ school with that much ego cases running around.

Sure, there are always a few, but they are the exception.

More of what the ego comes out of are MMA specific schools. I've run into many more ego cases there than in diciplined BJJ schools. Think about it. Most MMA schools, NOT all, but many don't focus on pure BJJ.

Their grappling is often more of wresting related and most training is rapid and focused on conditioning and a general understanding of a handful of moves. This, in my experience (bear in mind I lived it), leads to a certain mindset often times.

Now, in contrast, a pure BJJ school is lots of technique and relaxation during rolling that will not lend itself well to the mindset of the ego case. They tend to move on to a faster paced, often times, more superficial learning enviornment.

So, sometimes the guys grapping as part of an MMA program get misidentified as BJJ guys.

Just a thought.

[dwarf2]

In my school we never had a problem with grappling and I would have my students grapple and this was way before the craze for bjj. One of my students learned bjj and started teaching half way thru my class bjj . Also because i had learned more of a cacc style I had him teach me the names of the moves and the way they applied them . i say this if you don't have a ground game do yourself, and your students a favor, get a ground game .

[Capt Jakk]

Unfortunately, the internet has turned the BJJ/MMA effectiveness vs TMA effectiveness into a black and white issue that often boils down to who can shout the loudest and ignores any shade of grey. This kind of environment means that you have to prove to me that you aren't some BJJ fanboy before I will accept feedback from you.

To be honest, I find the whole argument about one style being "more" effective than another to be rather annoying. Because a style is considered more effective doesn't mean the other style won't work in a given situation. As my sensei says, "you use what you know." I know I'd rather have a couple of experienced american football players have my back in a fight instead of a couple of BJJ practitioners with 3 months training.

[brickshooter]

What irks me the most about BJJ are some of the marketing and promotion. Rather than talk techniques, some BJJ practicioners prefer to humiliate other martial arts.

I think that this type of marketing works well for the very young person or those with limited intelligence. But it really turns off most people.

My enemy is my attacker. My enemy are not the other martial arts.

[tallgeese]

There might be some of that; humiliation for for humiliation's sake. However, lots of stuff I've seen is just a factual statement of the effectiveness of the art.

I've said it before, when one gets confronted by this you can a) admit there is a hole in your game a do something about it, of b) ignore it and hope you don't run into "that guy". Of course, I suppose that there is the third option of slamming grappling despite the obvious effectiveness of it. It's the last reaction that tends to lead to grief.

If you see that it's a weakness and train some sort of grappling, then good for you. If you don't want to do that because you like what you do already, then you've got a good handle on why you're training. Again, good for you. if you take the third option, then friction ensues.

I have seen a few, FEW, ego driven cases that are out to just put TMA's down. However, I see WAY more BJJers that just want to point out the effectiveness of their art. It's a tradition that believes in what can be defended against a resisting opponent. Of course they will be skeptical about theoretical effectiveness.

I think a bunch of the animosity is still hanging around from early in the UFC era when the Gracies made the rounds tapping out trad practitioners. It upset alot of people, but you'll notice that VERY few times were they jerks about it. It was pretty classy. And how else were some guys from Brazil going to impress upon the world the effectiveness of their art? Especially one grounded in working off a fully resistive opponent?

I think that the wake up call they gave us all has still left some sour. Personally,I think they did us a favor. How many trad guys REALLY dealt with the ground prior to the Gracie invasion of the early 90's.

[brickshooter]

I think that BJJ practicioners can make a better point by simply stating that all MMA fighters regardless of their background, train in BJJ to survive, then point to the UFC poster on their wall.

That is far more impressive than any personal statements degrading other martial arts.

[Oni Kudaki]

It's not so much BJJ, it's the UFC types who study it and then put down every other style. I've heard some jerks saying things like "Karate would never work in a real fight you need to learn BJJ and Muay Thai." and that really bugs me, it's like a giant flip of the bird to not only practitioners of other styles but to martial arts in general.

Personally, I don't have a problem with BJJ. I do, however, have a problem with the kinds of people don't have any respect for other styles.