Finger breaks

[Jay]

The choke from behind while being dragged backwards is the hardest thing to get out of. Its very hard it has happened to me and you have to understand if they know how to choke then your not going to get out of it. The distance from your body to theirs is too far to get enough leverage to do much.

You can't really take all cases under one banner. If I was a mugger and I desperatly needed the money then a broken finger may not stop me it just depends on the individuals case. What im saying is just don't assume it will stop them thats the biggest mistake you can make. What the guy thought was a simple mugging could turn into an assault.

The way most people bite then it may just make the person more angry. If someone bites me I would just hit them harder its just natural. Biting itself is an art, look up Kino Muti.

On the other hand if someone takes a big chunk out of my arm or whereever I may just be in shock. Of course you don't know what you could catch but if your life is in danger then it is probably worth it.

Prevention will always be better than cure. Good awareness and not putting yourself in a situation where this could happen will serve you much better than any scripted defence.

[tonydee]

My initial reaction was to go crazy: stamp on him, elbow, think I tried to kick my heel up to his knee, basically kicking and flailing while I panicked.

Worth analysing the value of that.... If you've learned good body mechanics, all those strikes should naturally be much more powerful than most people's, and you should instinctively - even in a panic - be picking the tools that are sufficiently free to do something. If you can get that far you've already got a big advantage over the panicked untrained person who just struggles to hit with the wrong limb, wrong motion, and at the wrong place.... There are lots of grab situations (e.g. standing frontal strangulation) where you typically have free limbs and unprotected sensitive targets, and it's a great instinct to drive your limbs straight into a cascade of striking attacks rather than grabbing back and necessarily getting into a battle where a strength and size advantage is the dominant factor.

Then I went back with him, got my hip behind his and flipped us both onto the floor so I landed on him with my elbow. Knocked the wind out of him so he let go and I could run away and deal with the rest of them. If he hadn't have let go I guess I'd be worse off. (I should probably make another thread asking for better escapes ).

Of course that's great too if you can pull it off.

Another question,

If the person you were trying to mug broke your finger would you let go?

Reason I ask is another guy I sometimes train with was doing a similar exercise and someone's response to being grabbed like that was to try to bite him. He said not to do it because if it was him that'd hurt but just make him angry and he'd probably start hitting her (if he wasn't already) in response.

That's always a danger with any techniques - finger breaks, a punch or kick etc.. Most people realising they've been hit or injured are going to be moved to some change of tactics, whether it's an escalation of viciousness or an effort to flee. But, if you expect they're going to get too nasty anyway, and sooner or later things will still go awfully wrong, then you might as well get it over and done with. Surprise can be a big factor in scaring someone into doubts that lead to either mistakes or flight, so escalating gradually while monitoring their anger levels and violent tendencies is a particularly dangerous strategy.

Cheers,

Tony

[StrangeBacon]

Even if the broken finger doesnt stop them they're going to loosen the grip and give you some room to work with. Its similar with wrist locks, if you cant get the lock grab a thumb or pinky, and assuming the assailant isnt on any kind of pain supressing drugs its going to hurt a great deal, my sensei has dragged me around the dojo by my pinky before and i can tell you there's very little you can do when you're on your stomach at the mercy of someone else

[joesteph]

Its similar with wrist locks, if you cant get the lock grab a thumb or pinky . . .

This was what I'd learned in a course called Street Survival (which I took when the buffalo were still on the plains). The wrist lock isn't a guarantee, but if it gives you a split second, use that time to grab a finger and snap!

[M]y sensei has dragged me around the dojo by my pinky before and i can tell you there's very little you can do when you're on your stomach at the mercy of someone else

This is what my sensei demonstrated in self-defense JJ, which I took a number of lessons in last year. Using both hands, he first seized the hand and a couple of fingers of the arm reaching out to grab him, then he yanked the demonstrator (not me; someone with experience in Vee Arnis JJ) right down onto his belly, even maneuvering him around as though threatening his attacker's friends that he'd snap the fingers if they didn't back off. We practiced the finger lock after that, to get the assailant face down.

[DWx]

I get what you guys are saying about bending the pinky fingers and being able to control someone, I've seen it done and had it done to me, but this is in the dojo. No-one is really going to want to let you break their finger if they have to go to work tomorrow. Just like I wouldn't let anyone kick me full force in the head. So there is always going to be a great deal of compliance when you apply these techs in practice. I guess we can't say for every would-be attacker, some are going to want to hurt you or steal from you more than others. I guess that was kinda what I was getting at in my question.

[KumitePanda]

ok so i have broken all of my fingers in sport - played basketball and the ball landed and my fingertips a fair bit.

[JiuJitsuNation]

I don't completely disagree with the finger deal. It's just most scenarios in which they are practiced are highly unlikely. I can certainly see if it"s a choke scenario or a full on grab and held scenario where the fingers are grabbed, that this would get you out. But while still in the free movement phase, is just low percentage for anyone.

[MMA_Jim]

So tonight in class we were working of self defense stuff. Had one person surrounded by a group of others who were allowed to do what they liked to the central person in an attempt to rob or assault them.

Anyway so the assistant instructor jumped on me and put me in a single arm headlock. After I got out of it he suggested that I could have done it easier by just breaking his fingers. I've been fortunate and have never broken anything before but does it really hurt that much? My argument was that if someone really wanted to mug/rape you a broken finger isn't going to stop them. So how much does it hurt and would it really be effective

You're getting mixed responses from people- some say it hurts, others say not so much. That unreliable in my book. Its a small joint, and while it can hurt like a SOB, adrenaline can also mask the pain. Think about how many people break their hands in a fight and dont find out till the pain hits them AFTERWARDS.

Could you break the fingers? You could try. I would suggest getting out of the headlock first, getting a superior position, and then you can do whatever you want. Besides, what if he puts you in that single arm headlock and simply makes a fist- now you cant grab or break anything. And always remember that while you're trying, his other hand will probably be beating you in the head.

[Kuma]

I would say if you got out without having to resort to breaking their finger, then you obviously found something that works for you. Techniques like finger breaks and nerve attacks to me are just icing on the cake: if you can pull them off, great, but you shouldn't rely solely on them.

[Montana]

At a ripe old age of 58, I've probably broken, sprained or jammed all of my fingers at one time or the other and yes, believe me, it hurts! The thought of grappling with someone with a broken or severely sprained finger isn't pretty, and would certainly stop me if my opponent continued to attack the damaged digit.

The thumb would be the best, but trust me, any finger is good. Especially if your opponent grabs you and you have access to prying out a finger and give it a good twist or bend. Short of being on drugs and not feeling any pain, I think it would successfully stop most people from wanting to continue, especially if you're still yanking on that finger AFTER it breaks!