Shannon a butcher???

[shotochem]

On 2002-08-01 22:47, Taikudo-ka wrote:

 

"Think of how pi$$ed off you were after September 11. I've NEVER seen the US so pi$$ed off before. Now imagine, this is how angry a Palestinian man gets every time an Israeli bomb with "Proudly made in the USA" stamped on the side demolishes half his house, killing his wife, children, and elderly mother.

The manufacture matters not. It is unfortunate that bombs have to be used at all.

 

The fact is that these people value thier lives so little that they are willing to kill themselves just to kill innocent people in the process, Just to create terror. Its a matter of intent. On the other side of the coin the Isrealies and Americans do not intentionally kill innocents if they can help it. At least the effort is made. The Palestinians could have had their own state. Instead, they chose violence. Remember their fellow arabs in Jordan are the ones who displaced them in the first place and would not keep them because the are terrorists. How soon we forget.......

 

 

[BizMarkie]

"The manufacture matters not." In most cases this would be true but the USA is one of Israels only friends right now supporting them heavily. Europe is putting pressure on Israel because they are destroying the palestinian society. Is it legitimate to brun down schools and destroy all univesity records? Are ambulances legitimate targets? Every other child in Palestine is sufering from malnutrition!

 

People are starving because of the Israeli blockades. It is dangerous to penalize an entire nation because of what Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are doing. If you have no hope, no job and your family is starving...; that's a big reason for the suicidebombings. It doesn't justifie it in any way but its an explanation! And they are playing into Sharons hands! His violance is justified by the bombs and so is his reluctance to do anything about the occupying settlers. Bush wants Arafat to go away and he could very well be right about that...but by saying it loud he is irritating all palestinians who will probably re-elect him. Sharon is a butcher with the blood of innocent refugees on his hands ( remember Sabra and Shatila), and a warmonger. There's a long way to go...and it's impossible to guess what will be. The times are sad.

[G95champ]

You said " Is it legitimate to brun down schools and destroy all univesity records? Are ambulances legitimate targets? Every other child in Palestine is sufering from malnutrition!"

 

The answer is no but don't the PLO do or try and do the same to Iseral. BTW do you not think we the USA would feed the PLO if they would stop their attacks. Did you see how we treated the Iraqi soliders after the Gulf War. Arraifat is why your children are hungry not Iseral and not the USA.

 

The violence will stop when one of 2 things happen. One the PLO stops their attacks. If they do that and Iseral was to attack a PLO site the US would not back them. Iseral is just reacting as ANY person would do when its people are attacked. If that don't work and it probably will not cuase Arrifat is a knuckle head the US is going to turn Iseral loose. Remember the 6 day war. It will end that quick.

 

So the PLO can do it the eaisy way or the hard way. IMO

 

 

[BizMarkie]

First of all try to spell correctly! Second, PLO are not the ones executing the attacks. It's breakout groups carrying out atrocities in Israel. You can say, rightly so, that Arafat is doing far too little to prevent the attacks, but his position in Palestine is weak and if he was to go, some hardliner would probably take his place and fan the flames even more.

 

And what any humanitarian would NEVER do is to punish and starve an entire nation for what smaller groups are doing!!! You seem to think that the entire palestinian population consists of terrorists...well anyone can see that's not the case. And you cannot blame Arafat for the starvation (even though it's not like Ethiopia had it) because he is not putting up the blockades.

 

You also mention the 6-day war. Well things are different now. If Israel were to start a war they would win in perhaps even less time than that because they have already ruined their opponents civic society. But would that mean the end of suicide bombings...come on! They would multiply and tear the entire region apart. And Isreal would probably not have american support because of Bush's declaration that his administration would like to see a palestinian state. And it would probably mean that Israel would lose all contact with Europe and that Bush's plan to overthrow Saddam will be almost impossible without heavy diplomatic losses.

 

Then you quote Patton, and it seems ironic...The palestinians are battling for a state with almost no weapons, while the israelies are firing missiles from mile high positions...

[ZakariRu]

one of my best friends from lebanon(his father was from palistine) told me about how when isreal was declared independent his grandfather lost his entire farm and most of his family's status and wealth. I dont know about you, but go somewhere in middle america. Find a Privite farm and take the land and give it to some europeans. See what that farmer will do to keep whats his. or get it back once its taken.

 

And so what if President bush declared that we shall pursue terrorist wherever they are. that doesnt give us the right to overthrow governmetns and bomb countries.

 

Most americans are so busy deciding what to wear today that they understand nothing of the middle east, when declarations like this are made. Why would they care who dies and where?

 

ending the rant.

 

On a side note. The U.S. special forces moto translates ruffly "to free the oppressed" sometimes i wonder if it should read "to defend the oil market and american intrest"

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Taikudo-Ka, thanks for saying what needed to be said. I knew that those who would criticize the actions we've taken over the last few months were misinformed, misguided, or just plain enemies, but it's nice to have it confirmed.

 

If we were attacked because we are willing to fight a war in the only way wars can possibly be fought--and that after years of mourning the victims of the worthless bastards we now have to kill--then it's clear we have no choice.

[G95champ]

Ok I am a poor typer I admit it.

 

The people of Palestine are good people but they do have a lot of hardliners. In fact truth be known I would bet a lot of the attacks blamed on them are actually being carried out by HAMAS or other groups. A few years ago I felt Arafat was doing a good job. I felt he was wanting peace. Now I don't know? When was the last time he asked the bombings to stop? He may be weak but he is their leader and if he speaks some will listen. Also if he does speak then if Isreal were to attack they would look like the bad guys no the PLO or Arafat.

 

As far as weapons go. Which you refer to my Patton quote. The Palestian people are quit well armed for a people with no tax base or county. Our own American Revolution proved the lesser advanced country can win. America learned that again in Vietnam as have many many coutries in other places and times. Isreal can bomb Palestian for the next 100 years and vice versa but you can not kill and idea. These 2 people will never be best of friends but at the same time they don't have to be at each others throats.

 

As far as American backing of Isreal we will. America is a Christian contry despite the fact we don't sponser a state religon. Our leaders and people know what our Bible teaches about Isreal so we won't turn on them.

 

As far as aide. You ever head of the Marshall Pan. The US rebuilt Europe after WWII. We also rebuilt Japan. We send millions in food and medicine to Irag but Saddam won't let the people have it. Face it we are the only good guys arround. Yeah we got intrest but we do try and help people. Don't think for a minute we won't feed the people of lPalestine if the attacks stop.

 

Have things changed since the 6 dat war? If anything Isreal has gotten stronger. The USSR is not there to back the other side now. The gulf war proved no tank can stand up to the American MIAI and Isreal may have a better air force than the US. At least pilot for pilot.

 

Bottom line for things to end a few things have to happen.

 

1. Arafat has to denounce violence and reinforce it.

 

2. Once that happens Isreal will honor that and stop its attacks.

 

3. When that happens America will oversee the formation of a new Palestine.

 

4. Once the state is formed some sort of inspection will have to go on for both sides to prevent a war.

 

It amazes me that 2 people with religons based on non violence and love can hate each other.