The Unaspired Head Turn!

[bushido_man96]

This might be a chicken or the egg discussion. Did the rule of recognition come about, because Okinawan MA's (which became Japanese MA's) always had the idea that you had to look your opponent in the face, or did they adapt that way, because of the rule of recognition?

I think you have a point here. I think much of it comes down to the personal preferences of who teaches you, and how you develop. My TKD instructor does mention the "blind" techniques that we use in sparring at times. In my ATA school, we learned to turn and ID the target first, before executing the kick. In forms, though, we are supposed to turn and look before moving to the next technique.

I think the difference comes in the emphasis placed on the head turn. Some will really snap their head to look at the next target, really emphasizing. For others, its just a casual look in the direction the next technique is going.

[DWx]

We specifically do not turn the head first. By us its considered wrong. To turn the head first is to add an additional movement and to signal to your opponent which way you're going. And to protect the neck by avoiding snapping the head round. You should use peripheral vision first and can look with the eyes but never turn your head. We have 9 "training secrets" to good pattern (form/kata) performance and number 3 is: To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet and breath into one single coordinated action.

Of course you can't use peripheral vision to turn 180° but these turns nearly always result in a block before the strike, (there is only one exception in the colour belt patterns but you could argue that it is easily modified to a blocking motion).

[sensei8]

To turn the head first is to add an additional movement and to signal to your opponent which way you're going.

I still don't understand this whenever I read/hear this. Are martial artists of this methodology so afraid of one additional movement?

Turning the head may be an additional movement, but, imho, it's such an infinitesimal amount. Surely, that one additional movement won't be the end of all things.

Of course I'd be signaling my opponent which way I'm going because I'm going to defend myself against THAT opponent. So what if my opponent knows I'm about to turn and face them, I've no secrets, besides, my opponents attacking me, so, I've got to defend myself, and if I announce that I'm going to turn to face my opponents attack...well...cool...and it won't be such a surprise after all! I'd suspect that my opponent will have already expected that of me and my turning to face them.

[ninjanurse]

number 3 is: To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet and breath into one single coordinated action.

A good principle but "coordinated" does not necessarily mean "simultaneous". Is the intention of the creator of this principle to mean "simultaneous" or is it meant to have a more holistic application?

[ps1]

The head turn has been important in every style I've studied. I would often take my students and have them punch a focus pad. Then I would have the close their eyes. When their eyes are closed i would simply move the pad and tell them to punch it. Of course they would miss. They then open their eyes to see it's not where it was. When I ask them why they miss the pad they usually blame me for moving it. That's when i point out that it's really because they couldn't see me move the pad. This helps them understand it's important to look before you strike or move.

[DWx]

To turn the head first is to add an additional movement and to signal to your opponent which way you're going.

I still don't understand this whenever I read/hear this. Are martial artists of this methodology so afraid of one additional movement?

Turning the head may be an additional movement, but, imho, it's such an infinitesimal amount. Surely, that one additional movement won't be the end of all things.

Of course I'd be signaling my opponent which way I'm going because I'm going to defend myself against THAT opponent. So what if my opponent knows I'm about to turn and face them, I've no secrets, besides, my opponents attacking me, so, I've got to defend myself, and if I announce that I'm going to turn to face my opponents attack...well...cool...and it won't be such a surprise after all! I'd suspect that my opponent will have already expected that of me and my turning to face them.

But how do you know to look that way in the first place? You've either already seen them in your periphery or sensed them there so you don't necessarily have to turn the head to look to see where they are before starting to move. Reflex vs concious decision. You can turn and reflexively raise your arm to block and look at the same time rather than turning the head to look first and then decide that you need to do something in that direction. Its the delay between turning the head, looking and then moving which is counted as an additional movement; it doesn't need to be there if you're going to turn and look at the same time.

As far as alerting your opponent that you're going that way, if you've got time to turn the head and look first before moving then its not that urgent. If they'd already started the attack its too late by the time you've looked and registered it then started to move. IMO, better to turn with the hands up ready just in case that motion you saw in the corner of your eye was a punch, if its not, then no harm done. If they weren't already throwing the punch then you've given them that split second to react and decide that now you're coming their way to deal with them so they better do something to stop you.

If anything by turning the head first you've just presented your face to get smashed while the rest of your body is catching up with the turn.

Not saying your method or reasoning is wrong, we just do it our way for the reasons I gave.

[DWx]

number 3 is: To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet and breath into one single coordinated action.

A good principle but "coordinated" does not necessarily mean "simultaneous". Is the intention of the creator of this principle to mean "simultaneous" or is it meant to have a more holistic application?

Well it is generally taken to mean simultaneous. I suppose I am thinking of the head turn as in extreme cases where the head turns and there is a gap. In practice I guess we are more along the lines of the videos Chitsu posted.

The head turn has been important in every style I've studied. I would often take my students and have them punch a focus pad. Then I would have the close their eyes. When their eyes are closed i would simply move the pad and tell them to punch it. Of course they would miss. They then open their eyes to see it's not where it was. When I ask them why they miss the pad they usually blame me for moving it. That's when i point out that it's really because they couldn't see me move the pad. This helps them understand it's important to look before you strike or move.

Eyes-closed is very different from seeing it out of the corner of your eye. I used to play netball and a drill we used to do would be to have people throw balls at us from either side so you could only just see it, both when you were standing still and when you were running as an advanced drill. If you train well enough its not that hard to catch without even looking first. And if you did need to look you'd have to try to look whilst already raising the arms to catch, otherwise you'd probably get smacked in the face.

[Chitsu]

To my way of thinking it is better the feeling way rather than the fixed focus way.

Sorry couldn't resist....

"Don't think, Feel!!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1c05bh6URc

Chitsu

[sensei8]

To my way of thinking it is better the feeling way rather than the fixed focus way.

Sorry couldn't resist....

"Don't think, Feel!!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1c05bh6URc

Chitsu

Nice, very nice!

[sensei8]

Not saying your method or reasoning is wrong, we just do it our way for the reasons I gave.

Fair enough; it's all good, meaning, I understand, and I thank you. I return it back to you with much respect....

Not saying your method or reasoning is wrong, we just do it our way for the reasons I gave!