With all of this blackbelt talk...

[RW]

I was wondering, what does a blackbelt mean? More like, what does it represent?

Some schools will give you a black belt if you train long enough. Others (think BJJ) will only give it to you if you beat some people. To some, it is the ultimate goal ("I got a black belt! The LAST belt!) to some it is only the begginig ("now I can begin training seriously").

Does having a BB mean you can hold yourself in a fight? I've seen many worthless black belts (and I have also seen many black or green belts than could beat me up silly without breaking a sweat).

What makes people think that having a BB qualifies someone to teach karate?

I'm not questioning BB's, I'm just curious about what they mean to people nowadays...

I can't help to remember how in the 80's having an Amex GOLD card was a sign of prestige and wealth. Now Amex gold cards don't mean much at all...

[MMA_Jim]

I was wondering, what does a blackbelt mean? More like, what does it represent?

Some schools will give you a black belt if you train long enough. Others (think BJJ) will only give it to you if you beat some people. To some, it is the ultimate goal ("I got a black belt! The LAST belt!) to some it is only the begginig ("now I can begin training seriously").

Does having a BB mean you can hold yourself in a fight? I've seen many worthless black belts (and I have also seen many black or green belts than could beat me up silly without breaking a sweat).

 

What makes people think that having a BB qualifies someone to teach karate?

I'm not questioning BB's, I'm just curious about what they mean to people nowadays...

I can't help to remember how in the 80's having an Amex GOLD card was a sign of prestige and wealth. Now Amex gold cards don't mean much at all...

TV...

They can or cannot mean all that much. Its kinda like if you tell people you've got a degree- most intelligent people will ask from which university. If you've got a degree from an accredited institution, people are probably going to hold your degree with higher esteem than if you got it at a local community college or worse- online.

[GeoGiant]

For me, a person needs to persevere to obtain a BB. Its achieved success marked by over-coming many individual obstacles. It marks a level of dedication. Martial arts like science is practiced... you can gain the knowledge to advance however there is always something else to learn or study or practice.

As for dojos that hand out BBs... I really don't have a comment. I mean, who is really being cheated? ... the BB. Why would you want to run a race, subtract a portion of your completion time and then claim you were faster...? Having your BB and having your butt handed to you by a yellow or green belt can't be fun.

As for instructors, I guess i would do some research into the school. My instructor was been teaching since the 70's and he is well known / respected in my area.... and I can tell you that he doesn't hand out BBs and the ones he has promoted to BB can clearly demo why they have a BB.

[Montana]

I was wondering, what does a blackbelt mean? More like, what does it represent?...

Everybody's definition is going to be different. Personally, it represents work done and a specific level of skill.

Does having a BB mean you can hold yourself in a fight? I've seen many worthless black belts (and I have also seen many black or green belts than could beat me up silly without breaking a sweat)....

Again, my prsonal opinion is that a black belt holder "should" be able to handle themselves in a fight against the majority of the people he/she should encounter on the street, and should also be able to handle themselves against multiple attackers and attackers with most weapons (guns don't count obviously). Because this is how I define it, I am against children attaining black belts. There's no way a child of 6-14 can handle themselves against an adult...period!

What makes people think that having a BB qualifies someone to teach karate?...

Well, there has to be SOMEONE that can teach, and criteria that allows them to determine whether or not a person has the skills and knowledge to teach.

I'm not questioning BB's, I'm just curious about what they mean to people nowadays... ...

When I started my training in January of 1975 after a stint in the military, a black belt was pretty rare to see. Now, half the grade schools kids have them! Pretty pathetic if you ask me. I think a black belt is pretty meaningless now.

[mr_obvious]

When I started my training in January of 1975 after a stint in the military, a black belt was pretty rare to see. Now, half the grade schools kids have them! Pretty pathetic if you ask me. I think a black belt is pretty meaningless now.

In some dojos, black belt still means a lot. However, without either an extensive competition resume and / or solid lineage back to an OG Sensei, the credential behind it is tenuous.

Me thinks.... In no case is the color around someone's waist, a guarantee or indicator of ability. There are both incompetent BB practitioners, and highly competent non-BB practitioners in pretty much every style that uses a belt / rank system.

I propose, that unless one aspires to teach, it's almost better to "sandbag" a little. For instance: find yourself having to prove self-defense in court? Sure will be easier to do so, without the opposition claiming "excessive force" because you're a black belt.

[ninjanurse]

Me thinks.... In no case is the color around someone's waist, a guarantee or indicator of ability. There are both incompetent BB practitioners, and highly competent non-BB practitioners in pretty much every style that uses a belt / rank system.

I agree here. To the beholder its meaning depends on their frame of reference which has no bearing on what it means to the holder.

I feel that it is a measure of physical ability, based on ones attributes and limitations, and a measure of ones spirit based upon the internal struggles and challenges that a student overcomes during the process.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Black belt should indicate a level of competency! Our consumer society has ruined this aspect of ma. Students who will quit because they are paying and expect to see "results" expecting belts they don't deserve to wear. Which is why our minimum age requirements are 19 for black belt. 16 for blue belt in the adult system. I believe in this because I think we becoming increasingly spoiled and should teach a work ethic to our children and set and example for our adults.

[sensei8]

What makes people think that having a BB qualifies someone to teach karate?

Please let me first say this. Not all black belts can teach!

I believe that the layperson denotes that any black belt is more than qualified to teach karate. The layperson, for one reason or another, views the black belt as the highest belt, and in that, all black belts should be able to teach karate. The black belt has been relegated as omniscient and omnipotent, when most of us here, know this to be the farthest thing from the truth.

What makes people think that having a black belt qualifies someone to teach karate? Ignorance, as well as an unswerving and unabated faith towards, and of, that black belt!

This is of course, my opinion!

[SaxonPig]

There is no universal standard. Every style, system, school and instructors make its/his own rules and sets criteria.

My first instructor believed that Shodan meant you had mastered the basics. He thought at least 5 years was right for Shodan and it often took 6 for many students. Took me 6.5 years. Looking back I am amazed more students didn't give up and quit. Many did, but I am surprised it wasn't more.

My current instructor thinks Shodan means you have learned the basics. He thinks an average student should be promoted in 4 years and an athletic one in 3.5 years. This seems fast to me but I have spoken with two men who earned black belts at local schools in far less time than that. Both said they felt unworthy of the rank and grew disappointed with their training. Interesting. One local dojo advertises a black belt program that takes six months at two classes per week. I don't think I could take such a black belt seriously.

I may not totally agree 100% on every detail, but I mainly agree with the philosophy espoused by my current instructor. Shodan in about 4 years, at Godan (5th) you should have learned the system totally and can do it all with expertise. Beyond that rank is awarded for effort, promoting the art, and time in service.

[mr_obvious]

Black belt should indicate a level of competency! Our consumer society has ruined this aspect of ma. Students who will quit because they are paying and expect to see "results" expecting belts they don't deserve to wear.

The key word there is "should." Maybe there was a time when BB was a guarantee of ability. It was probably before my time

I propose, that schools with heavy emphasis on a belt system, are encouraging the concept of "Belt Mania" (heh, I just coined a phrase). Our nation (USA) tends to turn everything into a competition; who has the fastest car, who makes more money.....who can get the highest rank in MA, etc. If the belt / rank concept disappears, what then? Maybe students efforts will become more focused on the real task at hand -- executing technique better than the next guy.

As a student myself, I expect to see results for my efforts. Actual results, not some stupid belt. I'm surely an exception. I've used this analogy before: people don't spend time in a gym to get belts. They go to see improvements in cardio, strength, definition and ultimately, health. No belts handed out at any gym I've ever heard of. Yet people still go......

My primary dojo these days has three non-black-belts in its system: white, green, brown; and is 95% adults. Other than where in line we stand and which kata we're each practicing, there is no mention, emphasis or even much talk about belts. Belts are there as a nod to tradition, but that's it. We all show up to train.

My alternate school has ten colored belts, and is ~93% kids, and as you can guess..... "When can I test? Huh, huh? When do I get my next belt?!?" is the central topic of discussion.

So my theory here is: if a school emphasizes belts, then its students will prioritize accordingly.