Interesting observation.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Royce Gracie said "to beat jiu jitsu, must train jiu jitsu. Either way jiu jitsu wins." Now before I get everyone into an uproar let me finish. Traditional ma tends to attack or use ufc or BJJ as an example of what if this happens? They seem to target the sport and style. Maybe because it all came about to prove what works and what doesn't. And the results were unmistakable. My point is this. Why not use judo or sambo or high school wrestling as an example? All of which would provide the same problem for the traditional stand up martial artist. The unknown more than style vs. style. Many people don't realize that all forms of martial arts at one time contained every aspect of the fight. Free movement phase, clinch phase and ground phase. So to my original thought. To most traditional practitioners the clinch and ground phase are a dark subject. Much like walking around in a dark basement looking for a light switch. Sambo is crazy effective and most concerning because they are excellent in the realm of throws and legs locks. A blown knee will certainly tip the fight if not end it. Judo players are mad sic at dumping you on your pumpkin, but no one says how do you defend Yama Arashi.

I believe it's due to the popularity of the sport and the style which is why there is this tension. I used to be part of the reason for this tension. Now I consider myself a traditional BJJ instructor. I believe to understand and defeat a certain brand of martial art you must know it's strengths and weaknesses through and through. Which means knowing it well. And why not? The point is to defend ones self. Not to defend ones style.

Forgive my writing.

[ps1]

Good post and I agree on all counts.

[tallgeese]

I also agree.

On the heels of that, when one gets confronted by this reality, you have a couple of choices. 1- you can ignore it and bad mouth it, or 2- learn something about it.

That's where you're going to see who wants to progress as a fighter and who is comfortable with just doing thier style. I actally have no problems with either. Do what makes you happy and suits you goals, just be real about what you're doing and why.

[GeoGiant]

Unfortunately I can't bring anything to the discussion other than to agree.

I love taking Tang Soo Do but I've learned that my ground game is lacking. Tallgeese said it best, "who want to progress as a fighter and who is comfortable with just doing their style".

While I can understand why someone may only want to train in a style, I want to progress as a fighter... on a side note, I'm taking my first BBJ class this week

[JiuJitsuNation]

That's awesome! Hope you enjoy it!

[bushido_man96]

Good, solid posting. It is the truth, as well.

[sensei8]

Royce Gracie said "to beat jiu jitsu, must train jiu jitsu. Either way jiu jitsu wins."

I concur!

Excellent post, a solid post!

[bub4444]

Royce Gracie said "to beat jiu jitsu, must train jiu jitsu. Either way jiu jitsu wins."

I concur!

Excellent post, a solid post!

Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not belive that Yoshida trained jiu jitsu, and neither did Sakuraba.

[MMA_Jim]

Royce Gracie said "to beat jiu jitsu, must train jiu jitsu. Either way jiu jitsu wins."

I concur!

Excellent post, a solid post!

Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not belive that Yoshida trained jiu jitsu, and neither did Sakuraba.

And Yoshida was defeated rather soundly by Royce noless....

Giving up 40-50lbs, and being a mediocre black belt, Royce was able to sweep, pass the guard of, mount, and take the back of the man who could easily be considered one of the best Judoka in the world.

Sakuraba trains (trained) extensively in catch wrestling and judo. The three have very similar techniques. The guy has rather sick grappling skills, what can you say about him? But he tends to be the exception rather than the rule. BJJ spat out more skilled grapplers than did any other style, though as the differences between styles have gradually faded over the years to where the best is incorporated from all styles, other styles have started producing good grapplers in their respective styles as well.

So, if you were to nit pick, change "ju jitsu" to "grappling" as a generic term, and you're set

[JiuJitsuNation]

Thank you Jim. And the start of this thread was exactly about that nit picking. I will wave the BJJ flag, but I am ultimately waving the grappling flag. Whatever is high percentage is what I will do. It's more my instructors, their history, lifestyle and philosophy that I am attached to when making my claim to a name. I am Ten years in and much wiser than the days of BJJ or GJJ is better than everything. lol silly. Facts are facts when it comes to training. Stop hating and learn something. I also embrace Japanese culture. It tells a story throughout my entire body. Truth is most of our histories will cross paths where all things are incorporated into one style. MMA is just history repeating itself. I'm surprised that a Judo player would have such things to say. Our histories are closely linked and can trace our lineage back to the same people with different emphasis later on.

Again it is about defending ones self, not ones style. To say a certain style addresses grapplers is silly talk. Grapplers are not jumping out of bushes attacking people. That is simply fear and denial. Telling yourself that what you have been doing for the past 10 years may not save you against every scenario isn't easy to admit. Fear of the unknown and fear of what we do not understand has had us killing each other since the beginning of man. The last little comments of my style and your style are just threads of fear. I love Judo. I love that Machida wears a shirt that says Karate is back. BJJ is my neighborhood, my family. But the world I live in is much larger than my small pond.

Why shouldn't we be curious about what could make us whole or at least grow as an individual. I realize it's human nature to take sides. To root for your decided team. People do it for sports they don't even participate in. But why? Does anyone try to understand their own tendencies or just go through life hoping to be right about something... anything.

Wow... what just happened... anyone know what year it is? What year is it!? I'm silly