Can A Child/Kid?

[bushido_man96]

That's a good call, Bob. I'd have no problem with an older, ranked child teaching other, younger ranks. It would be a good teaching lesson, and great for the future. Also signing as an assistant on the certificates would be a good thing, too.

[sensei8]

Hello, devil's advocate here again.

Why is it ok for this child/kid 3rd Dan to sign said certificates, but, still not ok to instruct these same said adults?

Is a minor allowed to even, i.e., sign same said certs?

[Lupin1]

Hello, devil's advocate here again.

Why is it ok for this child/kid 3rd Dan to sign said certificates, but, still not ok to instruct these same said adults?

Is a minor allowed to even, i.e., sign same said certs?

I'm not sure if it's allowed for him to sign the certificates, I guess that would depend upon the organization, if the school would belong to one. If they don't belong, then I guess it doesn't matter who signs the certificates.

I think most of us are just speaking from our personal beliefs about how adults would react to being taught by a child. They're all just generalizations based on personal experience and so they really mean nothing, but it's our opinions. I personally wouldn't go to a school where the head instructor was any less than 35, maybe even 40. But then again, I'm weird in the fact I wouldn't go to a school run by a woman, either. I'm just really particular about who teaches me and I learn best with older male teachers and I clash with woman teachers and younger teacher. Who the teacher is really affects the school probably a lot more than the teacher's level of expertise, and I'm not sure many adults would react well to being shephered around and told what to do by a 16-year-old wanting to be called sensei and sir and stuff. It's just... not really natural to us, I guess.

[bushido_man96]

Hello, devil's advocate here again.

Why is it ok for this child/kid 3rd Dan to sign said certificates, but, still not ok to instruct these same said adults?

Is a minor allowed to even, i.e., sign same said certs?

In response to this, I think that Lupin1 is kind of on the same track that I am in saying:

I think most of us are just speaking from our personal beliefs about how adults would react to being taught by a child. They're all just generalizations based on personal experience and so they really mean nothing, but it's our opinions...Who the teacher is really affects the school probably a lot more than the teacher's level of expertise, and I'm not sure many adults would react well to being shephered around and told what to do by a 16-year-old wanting to be called sensei and sir and stuff. It's just... not really natural to us, I guess.

[Blade96]

Within KarateForums, one can find many topics concerning kids/children earning/receiving a black belt; should they or shoudn't they. Depending on which side of the fence one is on, opinions widely differ. Therefore, I've decided to offer to the members of KarateForums a slightly different approach to this phenomenon.

Here we go.

There are children/kids that have black belts, this can't be disputed, it's a fact. There are children/kids that have rank, 1st Dan, 2nd Dan, and 3rd Dan. It's this child/kid 3rd Dan that I want to concentrate on as we discuss this with the interested members of KarateForum.

Basic preface is this. Karate considers the rank of Sandan [3rd Dan] as the rank where one is generally considered the first teaching level of karate. A Sandan is the "stepping out" ranking because it is much farther distant from nidan than nidan is from shodan. The Sandan is expected to have a clear understanding of all the underlying principles of all techniques and body movements. A Sandan should be able to independently produce Shodans [1st Dan], taking students from white belt to black belt without any outside help.

Here's a hypothetical background. A child/minor with a legitimate 3rd Dan wants to start teaching on their own. This child is age 16 years. The only thing in the way is that an adult can't enter into a binding legal contract with a minor. So, the parent(s) open a dojo for little Mary or little Tom. Sensei Mary/Tom do all of the teaching and the like while the parent(s) run the "front office" of the dojo. Now, the testing cycle is upon this dojo/dojang...

>Can this child/kid, who holds a legitimate 3rd Dan, issue rank and/or certificates up to 1st Dan?

Lets please forget the arguements about who would want one and the like, please! Lets please also forget the arguements about what this kids very own instructor might or might not say and/or what their styles governing body is going to say. Lets please forget about disrespecting those black belts that are child/kid black belts. These are great arguements, I'm sure, but I think these arguements might be best served for another time and another topic. Please!

Let the discussion begin!

You're right about the rank of Sandan my best friend in our dojo is a Sandan. and he's the reason do get to sit at the BB table lots of times lol because he wants me there. =] When you reach sandan i might add you also become a Senpai. I call my friend baby Senpai =] because its the lowest ranking senpai.

about the 16 year old BB I wouldnt take it seriously. Our association wont even promote people of that age to BB. And I dont think anyone should? btw a 16 year old SANDAN??

My two cents.

[sensei8]

btw a 16 year old SANDAN??

Oh they're there...everywhere...trust me...they're out there.

[DWx]

btw a 16 year old SANDAN??

Oh they're there...everywhere...trust me...they're out there.

16 is the minimum age you can be a 3rd dan in ITF TKD... I don't know how the skill levels and knowledge equates across different MAs but I'd like to think a 3rd dan in TKD is comparable to most other 3rd dans. They're very rare but I do know of one person who is 16 and a 3rd, and like I said in one of my earlier posts, my sister is 16 and will soon be eligible.

Just out of interest what age is ok to be a sandan then? And why can't adults respect and learn from 16 year olds? I started posting on this site when I was just 17 and I'd like to think you were talking to me like a peer rather than the child/kid you seem to think a 16 year old is.

If you respect your style and your teacher's and your school you should respect the person who has been promoted to sandan no matter how old they are and be willing to learn something from them.

[Patrick]

And why can't adults respect and learn from 16 year olds? I started posting on this site when I was just 17 and I'd like to think you were talking to me like a peer rather than the child/kid you seem to think a 16 year old is.

If you respect your style and your teacher's and your school you should respect the person who has been promoted to sandan no matter how old they are and be willing to learn something from them.

These seem to be pretty strong points to me.

Age is a tricky thing and sometimes people get too hung up on it. This happens both ways. We disregard minors because they are too young, and we're too trusting of adults because they are old. Both of these are bad.

I'm speaking at conferences more and more on the subjects of online community, social media and business and marketing as they relate to those areas. I have 10 years of experience in this space. I'm 25. I'm told I look younger than that, too. Chances are, when I step in the room, no one the depth of experience that I have.

I would say a majority of the people I speak to are older than me (that % is slowly changing as I myself age). They can ignore what I say. But, it'll be at their own peril and ignorance.

I see this as a similar thing. Most things you want to learn in life are experienced based. It doesn't matter if your instructor is 16 or 61. It doesn't matter if he or she can write his or her name on your piece of paper.

All that matters is that he knows something that you want to know and can communicate that knowledge to you. And if you disregard the messenger of that experience because of their age alone, you do so because of issues that you have, not issues that that person has.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Lupin1]

All that matters is that he knows something that you want to know and can communicate that knowledge to you.

I think that's the key there. It's a very rare 16-year-old who can teach adults effectively. Children and adults need to be taught differently-- they need to be treated differently, things need to be presented differently for them, etc. 16-year-olds tend to have trouble with this because they've never been adults and so they don't know how adults learn. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, I've found this to be the case.

[DWx]

All that matters is that he knows something that you want to know and can communicate that knowledge to you.

I think that's the key there. It's a very rare 16-year-old who can teach adults effectively. Children and adults need to be taught differently-- they need to be treated differently, things need to be presented differently for them, etc. 16-year-olds tend to have trouble with this because they've never been adults and so they don't know how adults learn. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, I've found this to be the case.

I think you need to give 16 year olds more credit. They really aren't that far removed from adults. Especially if they've been attending the same classes as the "adults" have. Treat them like little children and they'll behave like it but respect them like adults and they'll behave like them.