Should children be given black belts?

[sensei8]

Allow me to step very far away from the the rules and the regulations, and the Articles and the By-Laws that have been so deeply ingrained in me my entire life.

I NEVER understood the true reasons, the real reasons, as to why the Shindokan Hombu, or, for that matter of fact, why any martial arts organization created, and still propagates, the Junior Black Belt. I was a JBB at the age of 13 and I couldn't earn a full fledged Yudansha and/or any additional ranks until I reached the age of 18 years old. I accepted the reasons of my Soke, and I accepted the reasons that my Dai-Soke was a proponent of. I've continued in the belief and in the practice of the JBB because of the who, what, where, when, how and the why of the Hombu. I was dumb as a sheep, who stands before his/her shearer's, so I never opened my mouth. I accepted it and I practiced it in totality.

I've resented it and the implications that it assumed, as well as how it concluded about those under 18 years old; that included me. While I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I admit that, but I'm very far away from being a dull one.

As the years went by, I was stuck in the mud for 5 long years with my JBB wrapped around my waist, proud; yet, as I think upon it, I felt that I had been regulated as a lesser of a person! I continued to learn new things; kihon, kata, and kumite, but I wasn't allowed to achieve rank. More importantly, I wasn't a full-fleged Yudansha, I was a junior, still forced to sit at the kids table, away from the adults...FOR 5 YEARS. I learned so much in those 5 years, that when I retested for my Yudansha, I was granted permission by my Dai-Soke to test for my Nidan 3 months later...and I passed with flying colors.

At 13, 14, 15 ,16, and 17 years old I was seeing other kids and young men wearing full fledged Yudansha's and earning rank upon their obi's. I passed it off as though it was something that wasn't important to me. As a kid, it was important to me! I knew I wasn't an adult, and being an adult meant having and doing things that weren't meant to be for minors, and for some very good reasons.

But as far as Shindokan Karate-do went, I could do that, and I could do it very well as a child. While I freely admit that our curriculum as a JBB wasn't as involved as the adult curriculum, I was still feeling very ostracized against because I wasn't an adult.

As a JBB, I probably couldn't have defend myself against an adult that's hell-bent on doing me great bodily harm. Thanks for reminding me of this day after day. Thanks for giving me the preception that Shindokan only works for adults. Thanks for making sure that I ate all of my veggies. Thanks for not trusting me enough to put in practice, all that our Dai-Soke taught us. Or was what he was teaching us only for adults? No, Shindokan was for whomever tasted it, and found that it was good.

Should a child be given a black belt? Well...Do bears live in the woods? YOU'RE DARN SKIPPY THEY DO! YES!!

The martial arts isn't for adults only!

[Akikazeninja]

Allow me to step very far away from the the rules and the regulations, and the Articles and the By-Laws that have been so deeply ingrained in me my entire life.

I NEVER understood the true reasons, the real reasons, as to why the Shindokan Hombu, or, for that matter of fact, why any martial arts organization created, and still propagates, the Junior Black Belt. I was a JBB at the age of 13 and I couldn't earn a full fledged Yudansha and/or any additional ranks until I reached the age of 18 years old. I accepted the reasons of my Soke, and I accepted the reasons that my Dai-Soke was a proponent of. I've continued in the belief and in the practice of the JBB because of the who, what, where, when, how and the why of the Hombu. I was dumb as a sheep, who stands before his/her shearer's, so I never opened my mouth. I accepted it and I practiced it in totality.

I've resented it and the implications that it assumed, as well as how it concluded about those under 18 years old; that included me. While I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I admit that, but I'm very far away from being a dull one.

As the years went by, I was stuck in the mud for 5 long years with my JBB wrapped around my waist, proud; yet, as I think upon it, I felt that I had been regulated as a lesser of a person! I continued to learn new things; kihon, kata, and kumite, but I wasn't allowed to achieve rank. More importantly, I wasn't a full-fleged Yudansha, I was a junior, still forced to sit at the kids table, away from the adults...FOR 5 YEARS. I learned so much in those 5 years, that when I retested for my Yudansha, I was granted permission by my Dai-Soke to test for my Nidan 3 months later...and I passed with flying colors.

At 13, 14, 15 ,16, and 17 years old I was seeing other kids and young men wearing full fledged Yudansha's and earning rank upon their obi's. I passed it off as though it was something that wasn't important to me. As a kid, it was important to me! I knew I wasn't an adult, and being an adult meant having and doing things that weren't meant to be for minors, and for some very good reasons.

But as far as Shindokan Karate-do went, I could do that, and I could do it very well as a child. While I freely admit that our curriculum as a JBB wasn't as involved as the adult curriculum, I was still feeling very ostracized against because I wasn't an adult.

As a JBB, I probably couldn't have defend myself against an adult that's hell-bent on doing me great bodily harm. Thanks for reminding me of this day after day. Thanks for giving me the preception that Shindokan only works for adults. Thanks for making sure that I ate all of my veggies. Thanks for not trusting me enough to put in practice, all that our Dai-Soke taught us. Or was what he was teaching us only for adults? No, Shindokan was for whomever tasted it, and found that it was good.

Should a child be given a black belt? Well...Do bears live in the woods? YOU'RE DARN SKIPPY THEY DO! YES!!

The martial arts isn't for adults only!

Very wise words this may seem a little far off but I only being 15 see myself doing that a lot saying it doesnt matter to me but deep down it really does matter and I think that is the main reason people give up on things, because they run into a significant barrier and say well I never cared as an excuse, I told my parents that a lot when I quit tang soo do but I did really care so with that said I encourage any teens or kids to persevere to accomplish positive things even if it takes sacrifice By the way sorry about all the rabbit trails I get onto haha

[DWx]

... children can not hit or kick as hard as an adult.

I don't think that's a fair judgement to make. Kids can hit and kick as hard as an adult if you train them properly. This'll be evident if you have a breaking requirement for grading. Sure they wont break as much as a 200 lb man but neither is a smaller woman. But kids are definitely capable of breaking one board, a lot I know can go through two pine ones easy. Think this goes back to not allowing kids to have a belt purely because of their size.

[senseikellam]

I don't think that's a fair judgement to make.

I think you may have misunderstood why I said what I did about kids. I was thinking of my son. He is very small for his size. Yes, he is strong and tuff and can break broads (several at a time). But, while he excels in kata, he doesn't do as well in sparring. He has to work twice as hard as the next guy to compete. He has to modify his techniques to be able to use what he knows to his advantage. Usually, at tournaments, he ends up competing against an opponent who his bigger in both height and weight. He can't physically kick/punch from as far away as the other guy. That is a disadvantage somewhat. He has to get in and be quick to make his moves count. He has to be smarter, so to speak, than the next guy. My son does well. He placed 3rd in sparring at a recent tournament against 18 in his class. Imagine what he might be able to do if he had that extra 25 pounds and 5 inches the others have.

As I stated before, I have absolutely no problem at all awarding a regular (non junior) black belt to a child IF he can compete and defend himself/herself against an attacker of the same as expected of an adult testing for black. If the child has reached that ability and can meet all the same testing requirements as an adult, then give them the regular black belt. But, if they can't quite meet the same requirements, then, award them the junior black (more so they feel they have accomplished a lot) and keep letting them train until they are ready for the regular black.

No, I am not out to just milk for testing fees as some may think. At my school, kids have a choice. If they wish to test for a junior black, they may, or they can decide to not pay the testing fee for the junior black and wait until they can meet the requirements for the regular black. Each month we evaluate and let the kids know if they are ready for either and each one along with their parents decides. Many actually want the junior as it makes them feel good about themselves while they continue toward the regular black. I have never put a child up for a regular black until I knew 100% they could pass the test. I have two 14 year old black belts in my school.

[DWx]

My bad. From your original post it seemed as though you had a system where the kid got a jnr belt first because they were a kid then could test again for an adult belt. And since you said the reason for this was because they can't hit as hard as an adult, in my book that's not a good enough reason on its own.

But to be fair, with your son, if he competed in a weight class would he fare well? Because he certainly seems to do ok even if he is smaller. I think you have to take into account a kid's size and adjust for that just as you would do for adults. Or are you expecting a 5 ft 100 lb woman to fare as well as a 6 ft plus guy who is twice his weight? because to me that's the same line of reasoning as saying a kid can't have a belt because they're smaller than adults.

[senseikellam]

No my bad. I should have been more clear in my original post and explained that we give the kids a choice to test for a junior black or not.

The problem that we had at the last tournament is that who sparred against who was decided more by the color belt and age than by weight which wasn't as fair as it the kids were paired up by belt color, age, and weight. It wasn't well planned or balanced.

are you expecting a 5 ft 100 lb woman to fare as well as a 6 ft plus guy who is twice his weight?

No, I certainly would not expect a small woman to fare as well as a 6 ft plus guy who is twice her weight. Which was kinda my point. Many times at tournaments (at least locally) the kids just don't seem paired fairly. I am not sure why. I know my son is small for his age, but, the tournament we were invited to had kids that looked like giants. There really just wasn't anyone for him to spar with as close to his weight as I would have preferred. I just believe in using caution so no one gets hurt.

Could my little son defend himself in a real life and death situation against a six foot plus guy? Well, he would certainly make every hit and kick count, but, would that be good enough? I hope I never have to find out.

[sensei8]

...it seemed as though you had a system where the kid got a jnr belt first because they were a kid then could test again for an adult belt.

This is exactly what's in the Shindokan Articles and By-Laws; age requirements! That's what's happened to countless hundreds and thousands of Shindokan karateka's that were in between the ages of 13-17; adult Yudansha MUST be at the minimum age of 18 years old at the time of the testing cycle. We who were and those that are under the age requirements of the Yudansha were, and are, subjected to, and I'll say it, an unfair practice. But, in order for changes, like the age requirements, within the Articles AND the By-Laws to happen, a majority vote MUST be obtained. No majority vote, no change(s). I tried for many many years to make these changes when I was part of the Board of Regents, when I was the Chief Instructor of the Hombu, and when I was Kaicho, but, the petition vote never passed.

As a dojo owner, and then later on as Chief Instructor of the Hombu, I was subjected to those Articles and By-Laws, therefore, I could only promote students that are under 18 years of age, but, as old as 13 years old to the Junior Black Belt because of the AGE REQUIREMENTS as set forth.

My hands were tied and I couldn't, and I wouldn't, go against what was in the Articles and the By-Laws. I'm at a loss as to what I could've done when I was a kid, but, even more, I'm at a loss as to what else I could've done period beyond what I've fought for and against these many, many, many years!

No, I certainly would not expect a small woman to fare as well as a 6 ft plus guy who is twice her weight.

Then why teach women any martial art at all? If the women have already lost, and this is how I'm perceiving this, against a "6 ft plus guy who is twice her weight", then why even teach them the martial arts?

I once told a pair of kumite boys to stop hitting like girls. Well, I got quite a tongue lashing from ever mom that was there, and deservingly so! So, I'm at a loss when I read something that's similar to the aboved quote.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Sensei8 I completely see your point... However I will never give a child a BB. They are not even eligible till nineteen. You described the very reasons that children shouldn't have BB's. Besides the hierarchy and the fact that you couldn't defend yourself against adults are very real facts children should understand. Anyone for that matter. Our belt system makes my kids and young adults looking forward. You can't just drive a car because you can pass the drivers exam at 11. The are age limits in politics as well. All for good reason. At 19 when my fifteen year old green belt is ELIGIBLE for his BB, just think of how proud he'll be and knowing he worked hard for his right of passage and is old enough to just be. Giving a child a black belt early gives them all types of misconceptions. I have been brought in by other schools to do camps and have met 8 year old TKD BB's. And they are seriously confused. No BB no confusion. They also start to see themselves as being above their adult counterparts. This is just silly to me. BB's where never given to kids because they deserve it. These curriculum's were designed to make money. And schools that give children BB's are more marketable than ones that don't.

[sensei8]

Just please, to whomever this might be directed to, don't wrongly judge us who were once a JBB as well as those who've awarded the JBB, please!

Possibly the martial arts is in a quagmire; a Catch-22 if I ever saw one in the martial arts!

[senseikellam]

Then why teach women any martial art at all?

O.K. This is the last I am going to write on this subject.

First of all, I AM A WOMAN. I can most definitely hold my own with most people. I can punch and kick harder than a lot of men. With that said, people are INDIVIDUALS and no 2 are exactly alike nor are any 2 martial artist exactly a like. I could even punch and hit harder than the 4th dan woman that I trained under before moving to my current affiliation. But, would I want to be paired against a giant, no not really. Could I defend myself, I think so with no problem, but, I would rather not be in that situation. I would do my best of course and that is all anyone can do.

Because people are individuals and differences exist between them, my dojo looks at the individual. We have standards to go by which are designed to protect the individual from harm. Some individuals are ready for a full black belt at 14 or even earlier and some or not and that is just the way it is. (You should see how big some of the kids are at 12 much less at 14 in my school). But, it is not just about being ready physically, the individual must be ready mentally and very, very, view are at such a young age. As with everything in life, there are exceptions and 2 such exceptions exist in my school. Should those that are not ready at 14 or those that can't hit as hard as others have the right to train, YOU BET YOUR BOOTS THEY SHOULD. All martial artist hope that a day never comes when we are put in a life or death situation, but, everyone deserves the chance to learn skills that might help saves their lives if such a time comes.

Funakoshi said it best!

Negligence causes harm! Don't think about winning all the time, but think about how not to lose. Body and spirit come before technique.

Learning karate is a life long task.