What do you think of this article on bullying?

[joesteph]

This article appears in the online version of the newpaper:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280625/Bullying-good-children-Study-finds-fight-popular.html

One part of the article quotes a psychologist who said:

The study backs up . . . Helene Guldberg, child development expert . . . who said teachers should not protect pupils from playground spats as they can help them handle difficult events in the future.

I'm not sure "playground spats" is a proper synonym for bullying, but what do you think of the article?

[DWx]

Although the researchers accept that bullying can be damaging to children, leading to depression and anxiety, those who are not afraid to stand up for themselves can benefit from being picked on.

I agree with this. Although discretion is needed to know which students can stand up for themselves and which cannot. It'll benefit those who aren't afraid but for those who can't stand up for themselves you'll just be allowing things to get worse by leaving them alone. So when do you step in?

TBH I think nowadays teachers can sometimes be a little bit too eager to step in. Like the article said, kids need to know that not everyone will like them and having arguments and disputes are all part of that. I think teacher's should step in though when things start to get a bit more serious. But again, how do you know where that point is?

[joesteph]

Although the researchers accept that bullying can be damaging to children, leading to depression and anxiety, those who are not afraid to stand up for themselves can benefit from being picked on.

I agree with this. Although discretion is needed to know which students can stand up for themselves and which cannot. . . . So when do you step in?

I understand where you're coming from, Danielle. During the past week, David and Patrick were in the schoolyard with all the other children, and they were approached by a much larger boy known to tease and become physical, and who was accompanied by another boy. As soon as the teasing started, my sons did as instructed by Master Lago, to object and say "Stop!" David and Patrick then walked away from the two. But they were then followed. The teasing was wrong to do, but being followed is clearly bullying. The teasing restarted, my boys objected, said "Stop" and then ran to another part of the schoolyard. They weren't followed.

When I found out after school, I wrote a letter to David and Patrick's teacher, with a copy of it for the principal. I spoke with their teacher by phone. The coming together was observed at a distance and recognized that it wasn't friendly conversation. There are aides there in she schoolyard, and they've spoken with the teachers that the large boy who was the instigator would be monitored to be kept separated from my boys. David and Patrick have to do their part by staying clear of where the bully is. (As for that mystery friend, he remains a mystery to us.)

Patrick and David are actually sensitive children, likely a combination of their autism with basic personality. What was in their favor was that they knew what to do through karate instruction, which includes being firmly verbal before being physical, and they knew that they could physically defend themselves. If the bully and his friend ran after them, it would have been physical.

[sensei8]

I'm not a psychologist by any means! Having said this, I'm very passionate against bullying of any type. Is this article saying, remember, I'm not a psychologist, that if someone stands up to a bully that their live will be so much better, like when George McFly finally knocked out Biff Tannen?

Teachers should step in immediately when a fight starts in school. Teachers shouldn't wait for a proper time, because imho, just as soon as the fight starts, that's the proper time to stop the fight. This isn't the UFC when the ref waits until it's time to stop the fight because that might be to late. In this case, I sincerely believe that if a teacher waits to stop any said fight at school, and they had an opportunity to do so and they chose not to. That teacher should be repremanded by the school administration.

[joesteph]

. . . I'm very passionate against bullying of any type. Is this article saying, remember, I'm not a psychologist, that if someone stands up to a bully that their live will be so much better . . .

There seems to be a mixed message in the article, Bob, that the experience makes some stronger (more mature), and that it causes others to become weaker (depressed, anxious).

Bullying has to be treated as socially unacceptable by everyone in order to rein it in. A book by Rachel Simmons, Odd Girl Out, is about middle school female bullying, and its content is absolutely wicked. There was a movie with the same title, and it's terrible what the girl had to endure--even though no one laid a finger on her.

[Patrick]

So, the article says that kids who stand up for themselves against bullies tend to be more popular with teachers and students. I can accept that. Who doesn't like to see the bully get some comeuppance? Heh.

But, as far as letting it happen in front of you, as a teacher, etc... well, it varies by situation and all that, but... I would say that letting kids fight for the sake of some attempt to show them that they won't get along with everyone... probably isn't the greatest way to teach that lesson.

The thing is... it'll happen anyway, kids and people will have their chance to stand up to those treating them poorly. Not everything happens in front of a teacher, parent, friend or larger friendly person. But to let it happen in front of you for that purpose... again, just not what I would want to happen.

Personally, I was homeschooled and so my exposure to bullies was pretty much non-existent. I hung out with who I wanted and didn't have forced exposure to people. I don't have any unnatural problem standing up for myself or dealing with conflict and I'm pretty well aware that some people won't like me (I manage an online community that has guidelines, haha... comes with the territory). So, I learned those lessons other ways.

I think it's on parents to prepare their kids for the world, not for bullies or purposefully allowed conflicts to do so.

Patrick

[Blade96]

So, the article says that kids who stand up for themselves against bullies tend to be more popular with teachers and students. I can accept that. Who doesn't like to see the bully get some comeuppance? Heh.

But, as far as letting it happen in front of you, as a teacher, etc... well, it varies by situation and all that, but... I would say that letting kids fight for the sake of some attempt to show them that they won't get along with everyone... probably isn't the greatest way to teach that lesson.

The thing is... it'll happen anyway, kids and people will have their chance to stand up to those treating them poorly. Not everything happens in front of a teacher, parent, friend or larger friendly person. But to let it happen in front of you for that purpose... again, just not what I would want to happen.

Personally, I was homeschooled and so my exposure to bullies was pretty much non-existent. I hung out with who I wanted and didn't have forced exposure to people. I don't have any unnatural problem standing up for myself or dealing with conflict and I'm pretty well aware that some people won't like me (I manage an online community that has guidelines, haha... comes with the territory). So, I learned those lessons other ways.

I think it's on parents to prepare their kids for the world, not for bullies or purposefully allowed conflicts to do so.

Patrick

Patrick Most bullying will not happen in front of authority figures because bullies know how bad their behavior is.

and it seems that article is talking about the common schoolyard bully and not the absolute torture i was put through. In many cases you cant leave it alone because bullying isnt a thing that just sorts itself out naturally. The article also seems to confuse bullying with natural social hierarchies/spats.

I couldnt stand up to them, couldnt protect myself, and i should not have been 'left alone' and expected to. Because I almost died from it. Literally.

Some people just need help despite what that article says. As far as I am concerned that article is mostly garbage.

And this coming from a survivor of torture, as I call it. Cause thats what my experiences were.

[joesteph]

The article . . . seems to confuse bullying with natural social hierarchies/spats.

This was my impression, too, Blade.

Some people just need help despite what that article says.

When it comes to outright bullying, not "spats," I think it's most people, for emotional as well as physical well-being.

[Patrick]

Thanks for sharing that, Blade96.

The article itself is a little deeper than the headline, which is written to mainly gain attention, I'm sure. It's a little more balanced than the headline. For example:

Although the researchers accept that bullying can be damaging to children, leading to depression and anxiety, those who are not afraid to stand up for themselves can benefit from being picked on. ...

While the study did not suggest that it was healthy to be the victim of bullying, it found negative experiences could teach children about conflict resolution.

So, bullying is damaging, but negative experiences COULD teach kids about conflict resolution. I agree with that statement. It COULD. It also could not. Heh. So, just kind of a general statement that negative experiences can help people grow.

But, again, don't agree that teachers should let it happen.

Thanks,

Patrick

[DWx]

I don't think you can criticise the article too much, it was written for the Daily Mail so its not going to be cutting-edge journalism, just a general article.