Go Kan Ryu

[Shizentai]

I think it's funny how many people get into a martial art expecting it to be something soft and cuddly, and then they automatically expect it to make them into leaders or something of the sort. Pain is something that's natural in life, your gonna experience it with or without sparring, so why do people get so caught up in being afraid of the little 'love tap' from your peer or senior?

IMO, no pain that another person gives to me in an attack can equal the pain that I ultimately cause myself by being ill-prepared for it.

Therefore fear is pointless, respecting one another is common sense and self-discipline is mandatory.

[MasterPain]

I think it's funny how many people get into a martial art expecting it to be something soft and cuddly, and then they automatically expect it to make them into leaders or something of the sort. Pain is something that's natural in life, your gonna experience it with or without sparring, so why do people get so caught up in being afraid of the little 'love tap' from your peer or senior?

I can understand when your young...thirteen and under and being afraid, but it's a responsible step in martial arts, sparring that is. Or at least I think so.

It's natural and a sign of intelligence for a beginner to be afraid of pain. Pain hurts. It's our job as seniors and instructors to ease them into harder contact. A little at first, and as they become tougher and more confident upping the level of contact and intensity. Hit a newbie too hard to soon and they'll either quit or be gunshy for a long time. Don't hit them at all and they'll have a false confidence in untested technique.

[bushido_man96]

I agree; not many of us like to be hit. Along with upping the intensity as time goes by comes the knowledge and experience for the student to learn how to recognize and intelligently defend the attacks that begin coming in harder. It is a process, and throwing students to the wolves won't yield very good sized classes, and fewer training partners.

[tsd1592]

The thing is GKR IS the McDonalds of the karate would. you get what you pay for, JUNK food!!!

any martial art weather it be karate tangsoodo or tkd any one whose focus is on fast promotion and gathering money is a McDonalds of martial art. Its sad but thay are out there.

now with that bean said. dont think because a particular style does not do well in tourneys does not mean they don't produce good fighters. A tournament has no bearing on a martial arts effectiveness. I have seen many of artiest who do amazing in a tourney not be able to apply it in a situation were there is no rules or ref to save them. sometimes its hard to transition from comp to combat. This goes bouth ways of coarse.

Now i am a firm be leaver of hard sparring from day one. I am not talking about killing the guy with a punch or trying to knock him out with every punch. I am talking about continuous contact sparring. I beleave if from day one in sparring if you get hit hard enough to wear it hurts somewhat you learn what it means to get hit and the potential damage it can cause. At least for me my first sparring session i left with a busted up mouth and nose. Needless to I learned real quick hot to apply what i had been taught to protect my self.

The one down fall to this is as bushido man said. there were months and months were we would only have 5 students in our class. But thoughs five are some of the best martial artiest i have ever seen. its give and take yes bean very rough can scare people off. But it also can breed some amazing artist. i was fortunate enough to study under a man who truly beleaved in tradition. He refused to change the way he was taught no matter what. it was always about the art not the money or fame or size of the class.

[still kicking]

tsd1591 wrote:

i am a firm be leaver of hard sparring from day one. I beleave if from day one in sparring if you get hit hard enough to wear it hurts somewhat you learn what it means to get hit and the potential damage it can cause. At least for me my first sparring session i left with a busted up mouth and nose.

Tsd, people train in martial arts for a variety of reasons. I would argue that there are lots of big tough guys who could beat the stuffings out of people who I would not consider to be "skilled martial artists", whereas there are lots of skilled martial artists who would consider getting a busted up mouth and nose in class to be a very bad night. Different strokes, I guess. I get a bit annoyed at the comments about "tippy tappy" sparring -- a bit patronizing, I think. I would hazard a guess that the best tournament fighters in the world could hold their own against anyone, but whatever, for me it's not about beating the, um, stuffings out of people, or having it done to me, but developing my art.

In my opinion, the issue is control. If you train point sparring with medium hard contact to the body when up against other advanced students, and do a lot of bag work, you should be pretty well covered. People who say they want to get hitting people full out into their muscle memory are making the mistake of thinking that in a "real fight" we should just let our body take over, whereas I think the mind always has to be assessing the situation. Same as am I sparring an orange belt or a black belt, weak or strong, fearful or confident, you modify your techniques according to who and what's in front of you. In any case... I do not see any point to voluntarily submitting to getting beaten up to the point of injury on a regular basis, but hey, different strokes and all that.

[tsd1592]

the facts first off pulling punches does program your muscles to pull back this is a proven fact. second your right that's y there are different martial arts and instructors for people to chose from you find what you like. Just because you don't like the term tippy tappy does not mean its not right. as for me i took a self defince i could care less if i looked pretty as long as at the end of the day i was still alive after i was attacked. as for your argument about tough guys umm that's y i said it works both ways. You can devlop your art as you see fit we all have this option as martial artist and we all travel the path that best suites us. As for people not liking to get busted up your once again our right that's y i pointed out that there were months and months were we only had a few studints. But it is what suited me. also in my art i was fortunate enough to study from one of the top grandmasters in my style.I consider my self very privileged and honerd to be traind by him. As for modifying my techniques. well in my art that is disrespectful for thousands of years they worked they were designed for specific reason who am i to change there applications. You are right the mind does need to lead the body but what happens when the mind fells your body will take over to defend it self what then your muscles at that point are going to do what they have been programed to do. As for a real fight been in quit a few and i am sorry to tell you more than once my body kept pushing when my mind wanted to quit. you see that y we spared the way we did so when the mind fells the body took over just like i was told it wold.

[JusticeZero]

In a fight, the mind is going to have a lot more important things to be doing than standing over every technique to make sure it's not done the way it has been practiced. I'd rather have my mind able to go 'Execute attacks X and Y while I try to figure out a way to get out of this corner and get backup' than have to consciously force myself to concentrate on doing the movements in a way that my muscle memory considers wrong because it's not how I practiced.

[still kicking]

That's why we do bag work, but I knew this was going to open up a can of worms. Can't we just leave it at "different strokes?" Or not, carry on...

[tsd1592]

we sure can. but explane how bag work teaches you 2 take a punch or simulate a real person. you can trough a million kick agenst a bag but what happens when that bag hits back and does not stand steal. what happens when your thinking about your next technique and your attacker is overloading your senses. mind in the martial arts in undoubtedly your best weapon. but when it comes down to a situation wear i have to defend my life i would rather react than think. thinking about technique does not help when you should be executing it. and yes i prefer that my body naturally responds to it than me telling it it has 2

[still kicking]

With respect, tsd, that is not what I mean, but I think I will bow out of the conversation. I am not conceding defeat, just don't want to hash through it all. Perhaps we can agree to disagree?