Contracts or no contracts?

[Jeffrey]

Paying for a Black Belt up front is simply ridicules. My last school had contracts that were in place from white to orange and than from orange to brown. Never Black.

A Black Belt in MHO is something you earn on all your own. You have shown commitment to your art and the school by trying to master the techniques required and becoming more than an individual that shows up for training.

[mr_obvious]

Should school owners use contracts to do business? Or should they go month to month? and what about the packages?? People paying way up front for black belts???

Binding contracts are for cell phone companies, not dojos or gyms. Definitely offer a month-to-month option. Nothing wrong (IMHO) with offering blocks of dues (ie: 3, 6, 12 months) provided they offer a discount; and are hopefully accompanied by a temporary freeze option.

Definitely against paying for a "Black Belt Package." Like yeah....pay "x" number of dollars and you will receive two years of training, followed by a black belt. Pfft.

[JiuJitsuNation]

I don't believe that the belt is guaranteed in x amount of time. Just to be up front i'm not in favor of this, just heard of the practice. I am however in favor of contracts because school owner sign contracts for their building, marketing and other long term commitments just to teach what they love. I see no reason why the student can't make a commitment themselves. besides no one learns anything lasting in a month or 2. I'm not here for them to decide if they want to do martial arts. I'm here for them once they do decide they want to do martial arts. This country is lazy and we teaching our children it's ok to quite what we've started. I give a free week and sometimes more to help them make that choice. Beyond that i'm making a commitment to be on those mats 6 days a week 6 hrs a day to help them grow as individuals. I expect no less.

[mr_obvious]

It often times takes far longer than a week, or even several months to decide if a school is a right fit. With the Internet exploitation of McDojos and "McDojo-isms," many prospective students will turn around and walk out at the mention of the word "contract." I would, and have, with prejudice!

I personally approach the selection of martial arts instruction, similar to that of grocery shopping. Whichever market provides the best combination of quality, price, convenience, selection, atmosphere -- is where I shop. I think most people would consider it outrageous, if they went to checkout, and the clerk said something to the effect of "Your total today comes to $100. Oh, by the way....to buy these groceries today, you are committed to spend $100 in our store every week. We've signed leases for the premises, spent money advertising and have other overhead costs to make our product available to you. Therefore, you must make a commitment to spend $100 each week, with us. No matter if at any point in time, your taste in product changes, our product offering changes, we don't have product you want, our service goes downhill, the other patrons get on your nerves, the building falls into disrepair, you lose your job, relocate, etc."

Ultimately, if any business compares favorably to other offerings in the area, they won't need mandatory contracts. If, somewhere along the path, a proprietor experiences problems retaining customers, maybe they ought to look at the product / service they provide...... Furthermore, if a student ever decides they're unhappy training at a given facility, why force them to continue? All they're going to do is rain gloom-and-doom, and spread bad will.

Just in clarification of my previous post: contractual commitments in regards to cell service, are a different ballgame. Non-pay-as-you-go carriers use term contracts to recoup subsidized hardware costs (iPhone FTW!)

[JiuJitsuNation]

Did you just compare martial arts to groceries? lol Your point of view as a student is appreciated.

[ninjanurse]

I don't believe that the belt is guaranteed in x amount of time. Just to be up front i'm not in favor of this, just heard of the practice. I am however in favor of contracts because school owner sign contracts for their building, marketing and other long term commitments just to teach what they love. I see no reason why the student can't make a commitment themselves. besides no one learns anything lasting in a month or 2. I'm not here for them to decide if they want to do martial arts. I'm here for them once they do decide they want to do martial arts. This country is lazy and we teaching our children it's ok to quite what we've started. I give a free week and sometimes more to help them make that choice. Beyond that i'm making a commitment to be on those mats 6 days a week 6 hrs a day to help them grow as individuals. I expect no less.

Agreed.

[DWx]

Ultimately, if any business compares favorably to other offerings in the area, they won't need mandatory contracts.

Heh one of the reasons we have a contract system is because we operate at near capacity. Paying the fees guarantees your place in class.

[mr_obvious]

Did you just compare martial arts to groceries? lol Your point of view as a student is appreciated.

Dern right, I did.

Heh one of the reasons we have a contract system is because we operate at near capacity. Paying the fees guarantees your place in class.

I'm guessing by your posts, you're referring to something more like a billing agreement. I have a similar agreement at the gym I workout. Basically it allows them to automatically bill my Visa card at the end of each month; revocable or freezable at any time, at my request. But I haven't needed to exercise either option for a couple years.

This practice, I wholeheartedly support. One less thing for me to remember; and keeps administrative overhead (and thus costs) down for the gym owner. Win-win.

If I were to break a leg, be placed on TDY assignment, otherwise be unable or unwanting to train -- I can walk away! This is how it should be, IMHO.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Of course in the contract moving, injury, etc. Are acknowledged. But it's like buying a car you can't freeze your payment just because you decide not to drive it because your taste or preferences change.

[mr_obvious]

But a car isn't a service, it's a product (for which many people purchase outright). My cable, landline phone, power, ISP, insurance policies are all examples of services. All rendered without a contract. I can discontinue service for whatever reason, or no reason, at any time.

My perception of schools that require contracts -- in theory and what I've seen in survey of the various facilities I've visited -- contracts are necessary to retain students, when quality of instruction is insufficient. In my opinion, its a clear demonstration of low-value.

Google the definition of "McDojo" and one redundant indicator thereof, is the presence of a contract. Why? Many times the sales pitch, demo lesson, whatever......is far better than what is actually experienced in class. Many times students discover what was a highly touted program, or instructor's qualifications are really superfluous and exaggerated. A sham, in other words. But it won't matter, after getting a student to sign on the dotted line. Too bad, so sad ;-(

Just to be clear, I'm talking about a legal agreement obligating someone to pay dues, regardless of their continuing desire to train in a style or at a given facility.

I discussed this topic with my Senseis, and they rival my view. Instruction, content, atmosphere and facility should be enough to retain business. Most particularly, some schools in my area specifically mention the verbage "NO CONTRACTS" in their advertising. Apparently my sentiments are not isolated