Is it realistic to train for multiple attackers?

[bushido_man96]

I agree, tallgeese. If you can, let me know how you work that out. It would be great to see some kind of framework on it. Everything we did in academy was one-on-one, as well. I've heard several stories from incidents where one LEO is pulling or twisting on one limb an another is pulling or twisting on the other, and afterwards find out why what they were doing didn't work because they talk about what each was trying to do.

We had an incident about a month back now, 3 trying to arrest one, and in the struggle, I got a taste of a Taser...and it was an interdepartment deal, too, so I think its a good idea to include all the law enforcement entities in the area in training like this, if they will be interacting in the same jurisdiction (city and county guys, even state patrol, etc).

[tallgeese]

What we work off is primarily a two person method. What usually happens (at least according to our 2010 study) is that one officer grips the wrist of a bad guy to place him under arrest. Bad guy resists. Our officer then tries a straight arm bar takedown and bad guy fight to keep his arm to himself and stay up.

This usually becomes what I call the dance of death, where we all spin in a circle getting nowhere until we can pile enough cops on to knock everyone over by sheer weight.

So, what we work on now is the initial armbar officer does not initially try to takedown. He simply rolls the arm into position and bends bad guy forward. The second officer will then control the head and execute an inside takedown via the head.

This is a takedown we have drilled previously as a single person takedown. It was actually used quite a bit on it's own. Now we just incorporate it into a two man pattern.

You'll notice that the cop with the armbar not only gets to help with taking the subject down, but is also set up for cuffing via the armbar at the end of the movement.

We actually make everyone communicate on who has what and when the takedown is coming and what direction. This makes sure everyone's effort is in concert with one another.

We found in the study that we were using something similar by default. So we built on the natural tendencies of our people and refined it, then worked in communication.

We've had good feed back from the tactical side of training. We've used this on our shift with good success. I'm looking forward to seeing the results in the same study next year.

If you're interested in the study itself, I can email it to you. It's not anything real high speed, but it really did help us justify moving our CT program in a different, hopefully better, direction. However, it was a ton of work to do the study and then build new lesson plans.

[bushido_man96]

Cool, thanks tallgeese. Yeah, if you'd email that to me, I'd appreciate it. My DT partner and I could start playing with it, and maybe he can incorporate it into his training as well, if you wouldn't mind.

[Ashley]

Its difficult enough to learn how to fight against one person, let alone 2 or more. Most of the time, you'll still be using the same techniques. Train to fight one, primarily

Primarily yes. My comment was based on training to fight more than one on occasion. Every few weeks we line up for a 3 or 4 person sparring drill. The drill definitely has that element of surprise and confusion.

I think it's better to use aggressive tactics and attack first but not waiting to defend yourself. This may confuse your opponents and give you a chance to win. I saw many times when a single person won against 2.

[Dobbersky]

Definately agree that we should all train for multiple attackers!

I teach my students to use one of them as a shield against the others.

Quite a lot of the kata, we use in Karate are against multiple attackers

[Jay]

This is one area I have little experience in, I have done a few drills and such but no padded up realistic training. The way I look at this is, can I get the hell out of there. If I can't then I need to get in a position to do that, so I either need a weapon or hit one of the guys in the way so I can escape. Either way im not going to stand and trade, plus if you fall down your in serious trouble.

[shihansean]

I do agree run away....when you can. I teach combatives. Been in the arts for 31 years trained in BJJ fought amature Vale Tudo. The one thing I always teach is awareness. But when faced with multiple attackers when you cant run you need to level the playing field. In combatives we train in knife combat. Many people do not like hearing this but when faced with near impossible odds and survival is the goal do what you need to get home to your loved ones.

[rmurray]

If you have multiple attackers who wont allow your retreat than a blade might be you best friend. That's a pretty big mental hump to get over before you start sticking bellies and slashing throats, but two or three guys can cause you irreversible harm pretty quickly. I'm glad I've never had to go there. I'd say once you committed though; go nuts and spread the love. There's no benefit to holding back. If you pull a blade and still don't win; you can bet you wont be walking out of there when it's over.

[Drew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2DirtL7JBg

Sorry I'm not sure how to embed a video or make a hyper link, I hope I did it right.

That is a video of some guy who fought about five guys off by himself in a crowded street.

In The Princess Bride the character Andre the Giant played said something like, "you see, you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen people." This is amusing seeing as he was having the opposite problem most people seem to have which was fighting Wesley only instead of multiple attackers.

Anyway, his advice seems to be supported by the fight in the video, that man looks like a boxer with his steadfast devotion to punches, but he almost constantly backpedals so he only has to fight one person at a time.

In an actuall boxing match I would bet my shirt that he more often circles away from his opponent's rear hand than backpedals, but clearly that would not have done him much good against all of those people.

[Groinstrike]

I am perfectly comfortable as a male saying that "The Princess Bride" is a great movie.

Why, Andre the Giant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes multiple attackers require often different footwork and techniques.

For example, side kicks become far more relevant when faced with more than one opponent. IMHO